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Game of Thrones Season 7, Episode 7 discussion thread *SPOILERS*

595 replies

OlennasWimple · 27/08/2017 12:04

CAUTION - HERE BE DRAGONS (PROBABLY) AND SPOILERS!

THIS THREAD IS FOR DISCUSSION OF SEASON 7, EPISODE 7 "THE DRAGON AND THE WOLF"

Come and discuss the very last episode in the penultimate series, airing August 27th at 2am UK time! Don't read the thread if you want to avoid finding out what happens in Season 7 but also Seasons 1-6.

Please avoid discussing leaks and production details for Seasons 7 and 8 but speculate away on what we have learnt from the new episodes and what it might mean for the rest of the Season and the ultimate winner(s) of the Game of Thrones.

OP posts:
KentMum2008 · 28/08/2017 22:03

Beyond a lot of those season 7 leaks were taken from photos that the original redditor had seen and he surmised certain things happening by linking them to the scripts he'd seen. The scene that didn't appear is almost identical to a scene that was aired, but featured another character. My thinking was he saw a leaked photo and assumed it was a certain character when actually it was another, which was shown in today's episode. I genuinely believe it was a mistake, because the scene that was shown today wasn't featured in the leaks as far as I can see.

KentMum2008 · 28/08/2017 22:06

And before anyone moans, I've not mentioned any names/characters/events. There were dozens of scenes in this episode Grin

AryaUnderfoot · 28/08/2017 22:08

I think the scene that was referenced was Lyanna's bed of blood.

Lots of redditers (particularly on freefolk) were falling over themselves with excitement that it might have been Sansa dying. Oh, I'm so glad they are all crying into their beers tonight because she's still alive.

Toffeelatteplease · 28/08/2017 22:08

Tyrion will turn on Dany worrying about the "burn them all" side of Dany's character like the old mad king. Echoes of the relationship between the mad king and Tywin lannister.

Either that or he ends up back married to Sansa.

Or both.

If you believe the theory that Tyrion may be the result of an affair between tyywin lannester's wife (Joanne I think) and the mad king. Books are inspired by the real wars of the roses, real war was won by a bastard with a dubious claim to the throne married to female heiress from the opposing family.
Just a thought of course

Toffeelatteplease · 28/08/2017 22:10

Sorry I meant the bastard line.

AryaUnderfoot · 28/08/2017 22:11

As an aside, I love the 'could of bot' that's appeared on freefolk lately. Every time someone types 'should of' or 'could of' an automatic response comes up saying 'it's shoud have or should've but never should of'.

It's grammar-nazi ing of MN proportions.

Everyone's suddenly correcting less with fewer as well. It's hilarious.

KentMum2008 · 28/08/2017 22:14

Arya you're braver than me, but yes, I think it was too.

Trills · 28/08/2017 22:16

Speaking of Hot Tudor Knights and bastard lines - I saw this on Twitter earlier this month

Trills · 28/08/2017 22:20

Sorry, Hot Welsh Knights. That guy was a Tudor but not a Tudor in the sense you'd expect it to mean.

YoureAllABunchOfBastards · 28/08/2017 22:43

Too much to process

Glad Jaime found his balls, and Theon found an advantage in being cockless.

Incest - urgh, but been so signalled

Tormund had better not be dead

And farewell Littlefinger and your wandering accent. Prick.

McTufty · 28/08/2017 22:48

But what if the waters freeze and Euron and co can't sail back from Essos

Oooh interesting idea!!

Hadn't occurred to me Tyrion might have switched. To be honest, I still think he would want the war against the white walkers to be won and cannot imagine he would engage in Cersei's plan not to help with it, but we will see.

KentMum2008 · 28/08/2017 22:51

LF accent used to wind me up no end, and that stupid smirk he does, ugh

twattymctwatterson · 28/08/2017 23:15

So!
I loved;
The scene between Jon and Theon - I admit I shed a tear
Littlefinger getting Littlefingered
Viserion bringing down the wall
Theon finally finding the silver lining in not having a cock

I didn't love;
Aegon. I've been hoping that part of the leaks were wrong for the past year. Looks like Lyanna really did a Single White Female on Elia Martell.
Bronn and Pod "going for a drink" because Lena and Jerome are so unprofessional that they can't appear in a single scene together 25 years after they dated. It's ridiculous

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 28/08/2017 23:17

How much time can the next series cover? Can the White Walker/wight army be delayed for 9 months to allow for Dany giving birth (or say 6 months for Cersei - secretly hoping for dwarf baby)? I don't think there's enough time left! The army will be pretty unstoppable, won't it?

Prediction: Danaerys is the Prince Who Was Promised - she woke dragons from stone, that's pretty specific. The Jon stuff is all misdirection. Jon is therefore Nissa Nissa and she must drive the sword Lightbringer (forged by Gendry) into his heart to create a weapon capable of defeating the Night's King. Her third betrayal for love is somehow linked in here - perhaps it's like in Harry Potter where Harry marks himself as the child of the prophecy - perhaps Jon chooses to be the sacrifice, thus betraying her for love.

AryaUnderfoot · 29/08/2017 06:48

TooExtraIimmatrure

To expand on your Dany theory...

Azor Ahai tried to forge the sword three times. Once he plunged it into water and it broke (could it be Drogo?). Once he plunged it into the heart of a lion and it broke (could she kill Tyrion?) and once he plunged it into the heart of Nissa Nissa (Jon?)

One idea I have heard is that Rhaegar was the TPTWP and Jon Snow is actually Lightbringer.

Has the Nissa Nissa story been covered on the show?

DispatchReady · 29/08/2017 07:08

I've only read the first book and have no idea about Nissa Nissa, only what I've read on this thread, so it's not been on the show. Would be good to have a simple explanation.

Also can someone explain more about Roberts Rebellion times - when R and L got married were Ellia and the children still alive? I do get confused with it all cos when she was about to give birth it seemed like The rebellion was just happening so how long was she "kidnapped" for? Did they get secretly married ages before and then go back to their lives - did Ellia know the marriage was annulled - or was it a rushed heavily preggers ceremony? But then he'd have been a widow?! Sorry hope that makes sense what I'm trying to ask! Just need an order of events Grin

TizzyDongue · 29/08/2017 07:13

This might be interesting for anyone interested in the whole war if the roses parallel but doesn't quite manage to get it:
history-behind-game-of-thrones.com/warofroses/kingjon

Mind you I still don't!! Though I've always struggled to grasp the whole throne battle (both in actual history and GoT). Can only really cope with direct linage!!

I remained hopeful right to the end Sansa and Arya were playing a game. Kept thinking that Bran can't be both boring AND useless. I know he's not ready and all that jazz, but least he managed to actually tell his sisters stuff!!! I'm thinking Samwell will pair up with Bran and make up for Brans not readiness with Sams knowledge and ability to recall/piece things together.

QuentinSummers · 29/08/2017 07:27

Not much to say, bit disappointed tbh. Not enough happened this series and it was all very predictable. So just place marking.

sweetbitter · 29/08/2017 07:30

Thoughts from the finale:

  • While I'm glad that Littlefinger met his end, I think it was lazily done in terms of storytelling. We should have seen/understood more neatly how Sansa and Arya actually overcame their very real and true-to-character suspicions of each other, at what point they started working together etc. Obviously Bran clued them into some stuff re Littlefinger's past but when? I think it was cheap not to have foreshadowed that more for the sake of the surprise twist.
  • I am kind of all for John/Dany and willing to overlook the incestuous aspect, though can't work out where the show is going with it, like whether J/D will turn out to be doomed lovers who have to be apart for the good of the wider picture.
  • I'm so glad Cersei was just plain lying about the truce. It had all seemed way too easy and out of character for her to go along with it. Plus it vindicates the fact that the "let's take an insane amount of risks to capture a white walker and bring it back to convince Cersei to do the right thing" plan was utterly stupid and a total waste of time and resources as I thought from the beginning. Plus it led to undead dragon.
  • Trying to make sense of Tyrion's glowering at the end and whether it was linked to the unseen promise to Cersei. I wondered if he'd promised her that her unborn child would be successor but that's surely not in his power to promise on behalf of Danaerys. Plus irrelevant anyway as Cersei isn't holding up her end of the bargain. I like the idea upthread that Tyrion knew she wouldn't back down, so just told Cersei to tell them all what they wanted to hear in order to have a successful meeting. And the glowering could just be that he knows romance complicates the strength of the Jon/Dany alliance, particularly in terms of how others (eg Northern lords) will view it. They'd be less likely to go along with the alliance if they perceive John has formed it for personal reasons rather than for the good of the land.
  • Loved Tormund and The Hound in this episode. Brianne has quite the little circle of admirers, and that's before we even get to Jamie!
AryaUnderfoot · 29/08/2017 07:33

DispathReady

The Azor Ahai story is here. Melissandre originally believes that Stannis is Azor Ahai reborn, and Sallador (sp?) Saan tells Davos the story of the original Azor Ahai story:

awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Azor_Ahai

As far as Robert's rebellion's concerned, the books have not confirmed R+L=J yet. It all started with the Tourney of Harrenhal where Rhaegar crowned Lyanna as Queen of Love and Beauty in front of his wife Elia. The 'official' version afterwards was that Rhaegar abducted Lyanna and raped and murdered her.

Elia remained in King's Landing as Aerys' hostage during the rebellion and was killed during the Sack of King's Landing at the end of the war. Ned finds Lyanna in the Tower of Joy dying and her last words were 'promise me, Ned'. He later returns home with a baby passed off as his own, so presumably the war had lasted long enough for him to get someone pregnant and for them to give birth. I'm not sure on timings.

No wedding between Lyanna and Rhaegar has been suggested in the books so far and there was no annulment between Elia and Rhaegar that we know of. It's a show-only thing at this point.

awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Robert%27s_Rebellion

TizzyDongue · 29/08/2017 07:39

QuentinSummers I feel the same, while I still liked it there was something missing from this season. I do think it has a lot to do with what sweetbitter mentioned. So much unseen things - Arya-Sansa-Bran thing missed out on a lot. Now the books do overkill on detail but prior to this series when with the books there was that build up.

Think D&D tried to make the little finger thing a 'shock but in doing so missed much of the suspense and intrigue the GoT did so well prior.

7 episodes is too little as things (not just crows and Jon Snow) moved too quick this series!!

Trills · 29/08/2017 08:12

It feels a bit overblown to suggest that Robert's Rebellion was based on a lie. The Mad King did still need bringing down.

DispatchReady · 29/08/2017 08:40

Thanks Arya - think the Nissa Nissa story will be the way to go for the ending but they haven't really gone down that route in the show - although I suppose next season someone could tell the full story.

So we still don't really know timelines re Jon as the reveal is not yet in the books! I forgot I actually knew that Confused

Agree about the Sansa/Arya/LF storyline - would have been written better in earlier seasons.

Think Bran really needs to step up now - he needs to share more!

Just watched Thronecast - hilarious!

PsammeadPaintedTheLion · 29/08/2017 08:48

Hello all!

I've been lurking a while. I saw the finale last night.

I loved Littlefinger - I mean, hated him, but loved how compelling his character was. I hated his death, the whole 'trick' trial felt like a terrible 1980s courtroom b-movie. But with more slitting of throats. The only thing I liked about it was that he died still trying to make excuses and talk his way out of it, which was very Littlefinger, and the way Arya killed him - very quick, very in keeping with her training. The fake-out just made me shudder though.

I had hoped we'd see more of Varys and Littlefinger in the future, my favorite 'couple' from the books. Although I have a feeling we'll see Petyr's face again Grin

I also don't think Jon and Dany was supposed to be sexy, but more of a 'oh nooo, what are they doing?!' moment. I can't imagine Jon being ok with this when he finds out.

As for Tyrion's face - he definitely made some sort of deal with Cersei although whether it had to do with the succession is doubtful. He knows she cannot have children, after all. I think it is more likely that he has to persuade her to go back to Essos (haha, autocorrected to Essex). His job will be harder if she has a Westerosi lover. Or could she be planning on marrying her to Jaime? Could she have even planned on sending Jaime right to her, although she isn't usually that clever. Then the Lannister child would have a better claim to the throne than most, right?

In Cersei's mind, if Jaime and Dany marry, Jaime has already secured the succession, the family will be able to stay in King's landing, the dragons can be dealt with at some point by the giant crossbow, and Dany could be quietly disposed of once Cersei's child is older. From Tyrion's perspective, marrying his older brother to Dany is not objectionable - Jaime I said more or less a good guy. And everyone would be more or less happy.

Obviously it wouldn't come to fruition, but it could be what Tyrion's task was.

AryaUnderfoot · 29/08/2017 09:14

I agree withe everyone on the Arya/Sansa/Littlefinger take-down storyline seeming sloppily written. It really does highlight that D&D are spending far too much worrying about how spectacular scenes such as 'ice lake' look on screen and far too little time writing believable stories and dialogue. These crappy scenes are often only saved by the strong acting of people like Alfie Allen and Lena Headey.

I'm sure Sansa's book take-down of Littlefinger will be more believable and true to his character and schemin abilities than this sister-fight.