Game of Thrones Season 7, Episode 7 discussion thread *SPOILERS*

[OlennasWimple]

CAUTION - HERE BE DRAGONS (PROBABLY) AND SPOILERS!

THIS THREAD IS FOR DISCUSSION OF SEASON 7, EPISODE 7 "THE DRAGON AND THE WOLF"

Come and discuss the very last episode in the penultimate series, airing August 27th at 2am UK time! Don't read the thread if you want to avoid finding out what happens in Season 7 but also Seasons 1-6.

Please avoid discussing leaks and production details for Seasons 7 and 8 but speculate away on what we have learnt from the new episodes and what it might mean for the rest of the Season and the ultimate winner(s) of the Game of Thrones.

Elizabeth Woodville (wife of Edward IV) did it.

She had sons Thomas and Richard by her first husband, then a whole bunch of kids with Edward, including another Richard. (he ended up being the smaller of the Princes in the Tower).

But this son is special! He's going to rule the world!

(Poor Elia - I feel more and more sorry for her the more backstory we get to hear)

Phew just caught up with the thread. Did not foresee Jon being called Aegon but I can see why Ned changed his name, to protect him. My thoughts have been even if Bran and Sam tell the world who he truely is, nobody is going to believe them so it's unlikely he could take the iron throne on the basis that he is the heir. However if him and Dany marry they will rule together anyway and i am certain by the end of series 8 they will have had a child who will be the heir of the throne. Didn't bother me the sex scene as they do not know about related and it's aunt/nephew not brother and sister.
Love Arya and Sansa getting revenge on LF. They almost had me fooled then I whooped with delight when Sansa named lord baelish. Also loved her comment about yes she is a slow learner, but she learns. Just gave her a human "I know my faults" moment, very much in contrast with Cersie and Tyrion and her belief that it's all his fault and nothing to do with her. Especially blaming him for killing Tommen, im pretty sure he didn't have anything to do with blowing up the sept and murdering his wife.
Honestly thought Cersie was going to kill Jaime. Glad he's plucked up the courage to do the right thing and walked away from her as he now sees she is crazy. I do believe she is pregnant with his child but I don't think it will end well. Maybe born deformed/dwarf so she kills it believing it to be a curse so Jaime then kills her.
Sam and Bran were awesome. I really hope they make more scenes of the two of them
Tormund cannot die like that, not without it being shown so I'm pretty sure him and Beric will be there in season 8. Also Gendry was probably back at winterfell forging dragon glass weapons. That is why he was sort out in kings landing really.
I did love it as a final episode, I felt like it ended without too many cliff hangers. we all knew the WW and NK would pass through the wall eventually so although the scene was shot beautifully it wasn't a shock.
My only complaint over season 7 is the fan service. It's like the writers have just read the fan fiction forums, looked at what they want and gone with it. GRRM makes plot twists that shock. The whole season, especially the last episode, was very predictable. I'd like to see more "red weddings"

My favourite weird naming story is that before they were married, Jeffrey Archer's parents had a little boy that they gave up for adoption. He was also called Jeffrey...

Rhaegar was played by Wilf Scolding, who for fellow Archers obsessives is now playing Chris Carter indistinguishably from Roy Tucker. He really did look very like Viserys. I wondered if they'd got Harry Lloyd back but it seems not.

I feel like I should be able to HEAR the point when she turns to Littlefinger tonight by the whooping or clapping from the surrounding flats.

(Poor Elia - I feel more and more sorry for her the more backstory we get to hear)

And what a horrible end for her. I can see why the Martells may end up on team Black-dragon in the books.

I am getting a bit sick of the gratuitous swearing. I get a bit sick of not being able to hear 20 words from the Hound without one of them being fuck or cunt. It wasn't anywhere near as bad in the first three seasons ,

Now they've even got Brienne saying 'fuck'. That's something I could never imagine her book character saying.

I can forgive Brienne swearing - she said "fuck" to make a point, to shock Jaime into hearing what she was saying. That's one of the points of swear words, after all.

The Hound saying "cunt" every three words is pure fanservice, and really annoying.

Do you think that there is an award somewhere for least sexy sex scene, for Jon and Dany? It looks like they were glued together (presumably to avoid any exposure - I read somewhere that Emilia Clarke had it in her contracts that she wasn't going to do lots of nudity any more)

Jaime was indeed shocked at Brienne swearing, and even more so at her thinking something else was more important than honour.

Lyanna was pretty shady all round really. Sneaking off to marry your boyfriend after he dumps his first wife and kids then naming your child the same as his other son? Not cool.

Least sexy sex scene hah - yes it was a scene worthy of GRRM. All it needed was Jon to suffer from premature ejaculation and then it would have followed book canon to the letter.

All I could think of was 'fat pink mast'...

i think it's due to lack of chemistry (onscreen) as well. It just seems very forced and not like either character. More for fan service really. Now jon and ygritte on the other hand ...

This is an interesting theory re Tyrion popculture.com/tv-shows/amp/2017/08/28/game-of-thrones-tyrion-cersei-deal-season-7-finale/

I thought it too, that some kind of succession could be worked out, but apparently Cersei is not playing, so I guess not.

And would you want to try co-parenting with Cersei? She doesn't have a great track record.

Interesting Tyrion theory - he clearly promised something important to Cersei to make her change her mind so abruptly (apparently)

But...Cersei hasn't even given birth yet, and Dany is still very young. Perhaps 30 good child-bearing years ahead of her (if the witch's curse is broken).. Would Tyrion have to skulk around outside Dany's bedchambers for the next three decades, in case she got jiggy with anyone else? Get a chastity belt fitted for her?

For all those wondering what kind of a un-dragon poor Viserion is, the picture shows why I think he's a wight: He's clearly got wings like a sieve! Obvious questions about the airworthyness of this particular flying vessel aside, holes in the wings imply decay to me and only wights decay - white walkers don't!

And, yes, Rhaegar looks all wrong. I've a perfect picture of Rhaegar (with short hair and rather more of a Lannister colouring, to be fair), but I can't upload it because he works at my office. I very much doubt Rhaegar-face would be the type to divorce his wife and elope with a teen instead.

*airworthiness ...

I've just found out my half brother is actually my cousin. I have good reason to suspect he's about to start a relationship with a woman who is actually his biological aunt. I know they don't use birth control as it's not actually a thing here in Westeros.

WIBU to tell him and prevent a potentially biologically flawed child being born of their incestuous relationship?

Whatever Tyrion may have promised Cersei, she's happy enough to go back on her word and not get it.

Anything that the Targ/Stark alliance might give her, is contingent on her supporting the fight against the Dead.

I also heard a theory saying that Tyrion knew she wouldn't back down, so just told Cersei to tell them all what they wanted to hear in order to have a successful meeting. This then shows why he looked so somber at the door - he knows cersei is going to attack and they may be pulled apart

mangomay oh, Westeros AiBU - I love it!

My answer - no, Arya, YANBU.

i think it's due to lack of chemistry (onscreen) as well.

It's a number of factors, IMO, the lack of chemistry being one of the primary reasons.

There's also the whole mise en scène and the way it's cut: the fact that you get into the scene out of Bran's vision does a number of things:

• The dying Lyanna scene right beforehand is miserable. Much as most of us love our mothers, who on earth wants to have mum on their mind during sex? Extra layer of incestuous vibe!
• As a viewer you don't only know but are actively reminded during the scene that this is, in fact, incest. No vibe, this is explicit (in more than one sense ...)
• The way the preceding/overlapping scene is arranged, you get that Jon is legitimate - but it also creates a happy families setting (albeit a prematurely ended one) for Jon. Add some more incestuous vibe.
• The whole thing is introduced via Bran's vision; there's the implication that Bran could be watching the present at the same time as the past due to the voice over carrying over. I'm about running out of incestuous vibe here!
• And if Bran watching is not enough, there's Tyrion just outside looking grim and knowing exactly what's going on. Only a turn-on for those of us with exhibitionist tendencies ...

Then you have the minor (relatively speaking) points of context knowledge, such as that Jon's mother in the mixed-in scene is dying of childbirth related causes, i.e. sex gone massively wrong, the fact that you, the viewer, are privy to what naked Jon actually looks like from the front as of last episode (those are some very unsexy scars!) and, yes, the lack of on-screen chemistry.

The whole thing is then set up with soft lighting and music and is altogether a bit soft-porny in character. It looks as though it's meant to be romantic but actually triggers cognitive dissonance in a variety of ways.

I'm not actually certain if this is entirely genius (if done on purpose) or just cringe-worthy (if meant to be taken at face value). Intent does matter a lot, as far as I'm concerned. I'll have to look up what D&D have to say about it once there is a statement on the matter.

And, yes, I've just spent five minutes analysing a GoT sex scene to death. I'm officicially in need of a few more hobbies.

Arya (glad you've changed your name back btw) I was actually Bran in that AIBU

I'm Pretty sure that scene wasn't meant to be sexy. The exposition of the voiceover explaining his parentage was totally intentional. I didn't think Jon and Daenarys were having joyful loving sex, it seemed quite desperate or fearful or something.