Game of Thrones Season 7, Episode 3 discussion thread *SPOILERS*

[OlennasWimple]

WARNING: HERE BE DRAGONS (probably) AND SPOILERS

THIS THREAD IS FOR DISCUSSION OF SEASON 7, EPISODE 3 "THE QUEEN'S JUSTICE"

Come and discuss the third episode in the penultimate series, airing July 31st at 2am UK time! Don't read the thread if you want to avoid finding out what happens in Season 7 but also Seasons 1-6

HBO description of the episode: Daenerys holds court. Cersei returns a gift. Jaime learns from his mistakes.

Please avoid discussing leaks and production details for Seasons 7 and 8 but speculate away on what we have learnt from the new episodes and what it might mean for the rest of the Season and the ultimate winner(s) of the Game of Thrones

Mycroft?! Has he been in it before? I keep expecting bizarre cameos now after Ed Sheeran.

Cersei's revenge was fitting, just what you'd expect her to do. I'm worried for Jamie

Yes, he's from the Iron Bank in Braavos. Might have been series 5.

Jamie's very easily shocked, isn't he?

"Finger up the bum?"

They had the best joke of the whole series in this episode as well.
Davos asking Missandei where she was from as he couldn't place her accent.
I lol'd, it was great

They must have been reading our threads and seen us talking about the accents - put that little bit in just for us!!

Question re. Daenerys in this episode: what is she referring to when she says she was 'raped'? Is she talking about her marriage to Khal Drogo? I've always thought that wedding was supremely rapey but was told I was misinterpreting it by pretty much everyone else.

And, if she is, doesn't that put a very disturbing spin on her whole subsequent relationship with him? Given that she's so out for revenge re. anybody else that kind of thing has happened to, how is this meant to be read?

Am I forgetting about an entire chapter of her biography? Don't think I am, but I might be?

In the show he definitely raped her on the wedding night. She was also sold to him like chattel. I guess how she felt about him later didn't erase those facts.

Book Dany was not raped on her wedding night (which always seemed a tad unrealistic to me). Show Dany was.

Both book and show Dany came to 'love' Khal Drogo - to the point where she was willing to risk all to keep him alive.

Either way, I don't think book or show character would be likely to discuss the idea of marital rape with a complete stranger who she wants to bend the knee to her. It seems very out of character.

In the show he definitely raped her on the wedding night. She was also sold to him like chattel. I guess how she felt about him later didn't erase those facts.

That has always been my interpretation, too. But, TBH, given how she feels about him later I had also assumed that this was not really her own take on things.

How is it to be understood, then, that she loves and, as rightly pointed out by Arya risks everything for her own rapist, but is so relentless in seeking vengeance for anybody else who's harmed those weaker than herself.

A less benevolent interpretation would read as 'externalising rage and the thirst for vengeance whilst in denial over her own, true feelings'. Which would be a rather worrisome psychological profile for an aspiring ruler of them all.

Not that it matters in a world where most rulers, as a rule, seem to be either incompetent, insane or a combination thereof.

BossyBitch don't try to make sense of it! This is showiverse and no-one makes rational decisions!

GRRM has Dany still stuck in her mess of Essos with everything falling apart around her ears. She's not sailing for Westeros any time soon - firmly trapped in her Meereenese knot.

In the show they have to wrap up the story quickly so she is brought to Westeros very quickly (and without hitch). In order to create some 'dramatic tension' between her and Jon there is lots of contrived and unrealistic dialogue and 'bend the knee' followed by 'no I won't'. As is usual for GoT, there will be some dramatic twist later on in the season and they will be best mates. It won't be at all predictable .

Same with Sansa/LF. It makes NO SENSE for him to be in any kind of position of power in Winterfell. Really, he should be dead by now. But no, we have to have dramatic tension and everyone shouting at the television for the entire season wondering why Sansa is being so stupid.

Same with Jaime - why on why is he still with Cersei?

Good characterisation has been thrown on the pyre in order to make way for these stupid and predictable plots and awful dialogue.

Meanwhile we have how many minutes of Cersei poisoning Tyene? Is the viewer not already well aware of what a psychopath she is? Do we need reminding again.

Good characterisation has been thrown on the pyre in order to make way for these stupid and predictable plots and awful dialogue.

Agreed! There's just so much stuff that fails to add up. The Dany issue jumped out at me, some others are listed above.

The Jamie thing does sort of make sense to me, though. I've always seen Jamie sort of like a drug addict in relation to his sister/lover. Cersei's bad for him. She might kill him in one way or another. He knows it, but he's incapable of quitting.

Total agreement on the Sansa/LF plot, though. It's understandable why he wants her around - but what about the other way round, and why does she tolerate it. She seems to have an inexplicable blind spot where LF is concerned. It deserves to be noted that Show-Sansa has (currently) survived a lot more shit than Book-Sansa, and in every other respect seems to have grown and matured as a character as a result. WTAF is wrong with her and the creep who really, really wanted to fuck her mum?

Book LF has book Sansa well and truly trapped in his web (along with the other Vale lords). He's created this incredibly complicated net of lies, blackmails and bribes which stretches all the way to Kings Landing. Show LF has....... Nothing. How much littlefingering do we really want to watch?

Book Jaime abandoned book Cersei after releasing Tyrion from the black cells after hearing 'she's been f*cking Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and Moon Boy for all I know'. That was enough for Jaime. What does show Cersei have to do to Jaime in order for him to leave her? Will there be enough time in the remaining episodes for him to actually have any form of redemption arc that doesn't seem really contrived. At the moment the best we can hope for is an honourable murder/suicide as the Valonqar. All those Jaime/Brienne fans are going to be horribly disappointed.

On Lancel, did anyone else get the impression that her conversation with Qyburn after Jamie's return "the other matter" was an abortion? Redditors seem to think she was seeking relief from menopause symptoms because Olenna said she'd be menopausal soon. Is that part from the books? (I only read the first three.)

I found the episode fun, I loved the last scene. The show has lost something, I no longer feel submerged in a universe, it looks like a fantasy soap opera, but it's still worth watching. I don't understand though why one of the most popular TV shows ever has to obviously cut corners budgetwise. Are HBOs execs taking home million dollar bonuses every year? The show should be able to do what it wants. I was disappointed by Highgarden and Casterly Rock after waiting so long to see them. They didn't match up with the pictures I had of them.

I was also disappointed by Bran. Up till now he's been able to communicate like a normal human being. It feels cheap that on meeting Sansa all he can do is tell her that he saw her get raped by Ramsay.

And my other little quibble is the mob yelling "twat" and "wanker" at Yara and the Sand Snakes. In reality wouldn't they just shout things like "scum", or the usual gendered insults for women?

And where was that Highgarden maze?!

They probably thought the Highgarden maze would look too Sleeping Beauty, just like they thought Euron's eyepatch would look too 'piratey'. Instead, they just have Euron acting like a panto pirate.

I thought Bran was a bit under-utilised this episode. One redditer referred to him as Dr Branhatten which I thought was quite fitting.

Bran's first words to Sansa should have been 'Littlefinger caused all of this shit for the Starks. KIll him immediately'. He serves no further plot purpose.

How old is Cersei?

It seems to me that it'd be an early menopause.

I don't imagine her to be much above 40.
(in the books she's almost certainly under, since Joffrey has a 13th birthday in the books)

....and who would have thought that Casterly Rock could be scaled with ladders?

I think book Cersei's age spans about 32-34.

Based on the aging of show Tommen, she's probably 40+ by now.

Bran's omniscience is clearly restricted for plot purposes and will be dripfed as it suits the writers. But I can't wait for him to reveal the truth to Jon about his mother and/or father.

I can perfectly well believe that Jaime is unable to quit Cersei but slightly shocked that she's decided to go Full Targaryen and basically come out about their relationship. I guess pretty much everyone knows by now - which is a bit depressing given how many people died to keep it secret or because the truth wasn't known.

I thought the scenes where Cersei/Jaime discussed the discarded plans for horrific murders of Tyenne/Olenna probably mirrored discussions in the GOT production office before they decided that inflicting gruesome bloody violence on young girls/old ladies would cause more trouble than it was worth. Personally I'm glad that they went for the more restrained options. And I cheered Olenna as she necked her easy way out before telling Jaime about Joffrey.

Oh and the Daily Express has an entertainingly batshit theory. Just how carefully did Cersei wipe her mouth before giving Jaime that blowjob???? She drank an antidote herself, but he didn't...and it's really slow acting.

Not even on GOT....surely....

WinifredAtwellsOtherPiano
To be fair, death by blowjob is very high up on the list of basically every man known to me as far as preferred ways of kicking the bucket are concerned.

Still ... not going to happen.

I definitely see Jaime as addicted to Cersei, rather than "in love" with her.

I wonder whether Jaime might defect to Daenarys and tyrion now that he knows tyrion didn't murder Joffrey

Nice to see Varys wrong footed by Melisandre though.

Agree Sam will unearth something useful in the mouldy scrolls.

Ellaria deserves Cerseis revenge, although it's still hideous.

Was the dragons dipping towards Jon them recognising his Targaryon blood?

I'm completely up to date with the books, and find the differences difficult at times. People are alive that should be dead (the Hound) and dead that should be alive (Rob Starks wife) and huge chunks of plot and various 'powerful' families have been missed out.

I need the next book.

People are alive that should be dead (the Hound)

The Hound is only as dead in the books than he was at the end of season 5. (think that's the right season anyway...)