Game of Thrones Season 7, Episode 3 discussion thread *SPOILERS*

[OlennasWimple]

WARNING: HERE BE DRAGONS (probably) AND SPOILERS

THIS THREAD IS FOR DISCUSSION OF SEASON 7, EPISODE 3 "THE QUEEN'S JUSTICE"

Come and discuss the third episode in the penultimate series, airing July 31st at 2am UK time! Don't read the thread if you want to avoid finding out what happens in Season 7 but also Seasons 1-6

HBO description of the episode: Daenerys holds court. Cersei returns a gift. Jaime learns from his mistakes.

Please avoid discussing leaks and production details for Seasons 7 and 8 but speculate away on what we have learnt from the new episodes and what it might mean for the rest of the Season and the ultimate winner(s) of the Game of Thrones

According to the books Jaime (and his twin Cercie) was 17 when he killed the mad king. He is therefore about 16.5 years older than Jon and 17.5 years older than Danny. So as Tommen is a young teenager when he becomes king, ( he is around 8-9 at the start of the books) book Cercei must be early to mid 30s.
Casterly rock is the seat of the warden of the west, as Winterfell is the seat of the north.- I wonder if that is why Tyrian ( and the Iron born who were originally the rulers of the west) wanted to take Casterly rock

I'm amazed cersie was so old when she was married off. Not that 17 is old but this is the time when you were married off as soon as your periods began (Sansa is only about 13 in the books, same as dani). Especially for a very well off family. Surprises me that's all. Joffrey was 16 when he died wasn't he? So yeah that would put cersie as mid 30's

Yes it is a it surprising that Cersie wasn't already married off. Lianna was 16 when she died- but should have been married to Robert Baratheon whom Cersie then married. Actually the figures don't quite add up do they?

Didn't Tywin originally want Cersei married to Rhaegar Targaryan? I think he poo pooed any betrothals for his children (including Oberyn and Elia Martell) as he wanted a 'fitting' match for them. Aerys snubbed his advances.

There is a theory in the books that Cersei is pregnant at the time of her arrest by the HIgh Sparrow. If that was the case, the 'father' would most likely be Osney Kettleblack. The last time she was intimate with Jaime was over Joffrey's dead body, and she was having her moon blood at the time (yuck).

Sansa, at 12, was young to marry (even by Westeros standards). The marriage itself wasn't young (Tyrek Lannister married Ermesande who was a baby), but the idea of consummation was. Tyrion and Kevan had conversations to that effect. The Lannisters really needed the marriage consummated so it couldn't be annulled.

Yes, Aerys said he would not marry his heir Rhaegar to a servant's daughter. Which makes it likely that Cersei and Jaime aren't secret Targaryens. (Aerys would have had no problem marrying Rhaegar to another Tart.) And it also explains why Tywin let Elia Martell - Rhaegar's wife - die such a horrible death. Tywin has never forgiven the snub and Elia paid the price.
Cersei was not married off, because Elia was very sickly and the Lannisters were waiting for her to die In childbirth, so that Cersei would get a second chance.

Tyrion wanted Casterly Rock, because it is his birthright. Cersei is a woman and Jaime is in the Kingsguard, so neither can inherit. Yet Tywin flat out denied naming Tyrion his heir. He said Tyrion would never get Casterly Rock. Tywin hoped that Jaime would leave the Kingsguard and take his rightful place as Lord of Casterly Rock. In the books Tywin genuinely did not realise that Jaime was in the Kingsguard to be close to Cersei. He thought that Aerys only named Jaime Kingsguard to deprive Tywin of his golden child and heir.

In the show did Tywin not have siblings? What happened to all those Lannisters other than Kevan?

In the books Joffre was 12 ( a year older than Sansa) at the beginning of the first book, so that would put him at 14 at his death. I presume the timescales are longer in the Tv series.

Didn't Tyson also have a sister?

Tywin's sister is Genna, who was married to a Frey (can't remember his name) at the age of 7. In the books, Genna Lannister and her Frey husband have been 'given' Riverrun after the surrender of the castle.

Thee's a Daven Lannister who's the castellan of Casterly Rock at the moment. Can't remember his relationship to the others. There's also lots of bastards and the lesser relations - the Lannisters of Lannisport.

I'm still struggling to see the purpose of sending the Unsullied all the way over to CR in the show if it is so insignificant that its loss doesn't matter to Jaime. The implication is that the Lords of the Westerlands will remain loyal to Team Cersei. If I was Tyrion, I would have had the Unsullied land at Maidenpool or Duskendale and have them march on Harrenhal. The Lords in that part of the Crownlands/Riverlands were often Targaryan loyalists and they would have gone to Daenerys side. Plus, Harenhal is a really potent symbol of the power of dragons.

I have a theory that Dany and Jon might both die saving the world and the kingdoms will go back to 7.

At least I can't see the North not staying independent.
There is so much emphasis on its strong cultural identity (Only submitted to the Targaryen by threat of annihilation- as mentioned by Dany herself last week) and it's been treated like shit by the past few kings.

I really hope they tell the South to fuck off for good and secede properly.

I was awake in the night and I got to wondering which character (tv not book) has had interaction with the most other characters/factions.

I'm guessing Tyrion as he's met all the Starks, been to the wall, the Vale so met Arryns etc. Obviously all the Lannisters, the Tyrells, Oberon and Ellaria, then all of Dany's crew and now Davos.

The only ones I think he hasn't met are Sam, Boltons, Freys, Sandsnakes, Greyjoys, Tullys (apart from Cat) Have I missed anyone? Did he meet Stannis apart from the battle? I know he'll have met him before the show started.

Jaime's another who's been around. He hasn't met Dany's crew (apart from Varys) or been to the wall. Has he met any Vale people?

And then if course there's peeping Bran who's probably seen everyone naked but he doesn't really count.

And for a teenage boy with that power he looks pretty uninterested. Most normal teenage boys would not resurface from naked vision until they are about 33.

I don't know if the timescales are longer, but the older kids' ages definitely started out higher.

Dany, Jon and Rob all have their ages set by "how long ago the war was" - they all have to be within a year of each other. Joffrey was aged up too. Sansa's first period was a plot point so if she was any older it was only a very little.

There's a sensible argument to be made that Cersei was "ready for marriage" at 14 or 15 but her father said "not til the war is over".

There's no particularly sensible in-universe argument that I've heard for why Dany was not sold married off at 14, unless no suitable opportunity arose til later.

We saw what the weird time loops did to poor Hodors brain.
I'm surprised Bran can string a sentence together.

I read a theory why Bran is so 'off' with Sansa. Because he has seen her betray Jon in the future, and is powerless to stop it. Could be true

Jaime has been to pretty much everywhere in the Seven Kingdoms bar the Wall.
He was meant to marry Lysa Tully (later Arryn) and rode all the way to Riverrun to see her. He probably fought alongside Stannis quelling the last Greyjoy Rebellion, after which Theon was sent to Winterfell. He served as a squire somewhere as well.
He might not know Arianne in the book.

Both Tyrion and Jaime know the Freys well in the books because of the indomitable Aunt Genna.
Tyrion may find Edmund and family in Casterly Rock if he lands there in the book.

Sorry to all the Sansa lovers but I think I she is a dick and I hope Arya shoves her on to a sharp stick.

WeDoNotSow That is a good one.

Thank you mustang to your insightful input into this thread

Sorry just the mood I'm in today.

Seriously though Sansa really gets on my nerves and iv said it on other threads. She is still the spoiled self entitled child desperate that was to marry Joffrey. The (show) character has shown no redeeming qualities as far as I'm concerned. Ok so she has sourced some grain and stuck some leather on armour to keep her troops warm but why isn't she practising with Brienne and not undermining her brother at every opportunity. Although tbf to her Jon should discuss his plans with her before sitting down with everyone else.

I think it's going to be left to Arya and Brienne to protect the North from Sansa and Littlefinger. I'm pretty convinced she will betray Jon and that's not reading spoilers.

Ignore typos and poor use of English I'm suffering with HG and dehydration can barely string a sentence irl, typing is on another level. Sorry.

Can the Three Eyed Raven see the future or only the past?

Both Trills.

Mustang I am with you on Sansa.

Only somebody completely daft would have their rapists enabler by her side. I don't think she needs to read the scroll that discusses LF involvement in that, she has to know already. I think it boils down to simply still harbouring her mothers resentment for Jon as she couldn't wait to tell Bran he was the true King of the North regardless to the fact that I'm not sure the bugger can even blink anymore.

Any way enough Sansa beating for me lol.

I'm not sure Bran is desperate to tell Jon his true lineage as I think Bran is with Jon in thinking it doesn't really matter who sits on the iron throne it's all about defeating the white walkers now and if that plays a part then he will tell him but that's not exactly the thing he is desperate to discuss.

Yaaay I'm so glad it's not just me Elena

Yes Mustang Sansa is definitely her mothers daughter.