The Handmaid's Tale Vol 2

[PacificDogwod]

I go to work and this is what happens: the previous thread fills up when I have pertinent things to say!

Hope nobody minds, I've taken the opportunity to start a new one before the Offspring demand food and the likes...

One of the masterful strikes of strategic genius of the new regime is the division and envy between everybody and everybody: men vs women, women in different roles vs other women, high ranking vs low ranking.
No solidarity is allowed - even the partnered Handmaids were half companion and have guard. Never knowing who might be an Eye and who to trust must be soul destroying.

I think Serena is quite a tragic figure - in the book and in the TV series. She must feel so betrayed by the ideals she fought for and that she is now kind of forced to uphold because otherwise what would her life be?? Admitting that she supporting a world view that while giving her some kind of social status by dint of her husband's role, considers her without value as she cannot have children would render everything she stands for invalid, and herself by extension.

The author who wrote a book about women being able to electrocute men by touch thereby causing a power change over (sorry, I cannot remember either name ) was talking on Radio Scotland today. She said the idea for her book came from when she wondered why so many mechanisms in society seem to go back to the fact that 'more men can throw a woman across a room than the other way around'. It's a depressing thought that physical strength underpins so much.

I ask adult DS nicely and he turns up with a USB stick that I plug into the TV. I don't ask questions it I suspect that there's a famously buccaneering website involved.

When he was recruited at the employment agency and was telling the chap about his family and his struggles in the diner

And then he was given a way of belonging, a role, feeling useful and having power.

You have to wonder how similar that story is to ISIS recruitment, gang recruitment, Army recruitment...

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/09/british-army-is-targeting-working-class-young-people-report-shows

Rachel Taylor, the charity’s director of programmes, said: “What’s very clear from the document is that the army is deliberately and strategically targeting young people from deprived backgrounds who have limited options in life.

“It’s not about presenting the military as one of many options. It’s about exploiting people who don’t have a lot else going for them and taking advantage of that lack of opportunity to fill the ranks usually for the most dangerous and badly paid roles.”

Thankyou SerfTerf

Serf I don't think he was obtaining alcohol for himself was he?

I thought he was just an agent for the Commanders contraband. I didn't realise he was exchanging drugs / pregnancy tests for alcohol, I thought he was just making a delivery, but if he was exchanging, it was probably the Commanders whiskey. I can't imagine he would be encouraging alcoholism in his family.

I thought the scene in the kitchen illustrated that in his own way Nick was being taken advantage of by the Commander too - if caught doing that transaction it would be his fault not the Commanders. Luckily for him he can be an Eye which gives him some protection, June doesn't get that choice.

I don't know batteries , I didn't catch it properly first time around but I'm wondering. I'm going to have to watch it again.

The other thing about that scene is that it shows the commander isn't just a user of jezebels he's helping to run it. Which casts him as instrumental in the rape not just of June but of Moira too (indirectly) if that makes sense.

As Serena went to go and visit her mother, I assume that their parents live outside the city (perhaps in a retirement community, where they are looked after by Marthas). In the book, old, infertile women were sent to the colonies - but I am sure this wouldn't happen to the commander's parents.

I just finished the oil, I devoured it in 2 days - whilst holdinb down a ft job and with 2 young children (who've been quite neglected over that time!) I loved it but have just as many questions as before. I feel they are portraying Serena Joy better on screen than in the book. Not just the age but she seems more forgivable on screen whereas (to me anyway) the Commander comes off worse in the book. I also feel when watching it that sense of "it coukd happen to me, and I don't feel that as much from reading the story, it's more detached. This is one of those rare cases where the screen version is better than the book imo. It has made me think of North Korea, and how people are expected to live there. All sorts of things go on under our noses and we do nothing (not individually obviously) It's so very sad.

Sorry for all the typos! I've just finished the book

I've just finished watching the full series ahead of time! As much as I liked the book the tv series made it so much more real. I'm so glad they're making another season!

I wonder if in Jezebels the author took any inspiration from the Story of O. I'm not very familiar with either books (honest gov) - but it seems there are co-incidences in the narratives, even down to a character called 'The Commander". Oo-err.

Crumbs the Story of O was very grim in parts (I remember reading it many years ago for a dare) like the early days cellar scenes with her being 'trained' to be accessible for anal sex, left in the dark, regularly abused and raped. :(

The whole Gilead thing is based on abuse and I think that's why normal(ish) people like the Commander and Serena (normal for that society then) were so easy to recruit into the larger, grimmer plan. They were used almost as much as the other groups involved. Although they have privilege and power, it's clear from recent events that that's only within a limited sphere - we initially think the Commander is this hugely powerful person, but as the tale goes on, he's being seen as less and less powerful and actually under a lot of stress and coercion to behave in an acceptable way for the Gilead leaders who are really in charge. After all, even the commander is being watched - and knows that he is - so he and Serena are constantly nervous about their own position within the hierarchy. I think that shows that actually they're not entirely happy with the way things have turned out. Maybe when they got involved at the start it was at a more idealistic stage and a lot more tied to the kind of religion that they understood at the time, but perhaps now everything has become darker and twisted and the religion is merely a foil for the control of every single person - including them.

I'm interested in the story of the Martha's and where they come into it - and how they were recruited. They seem to be such dark and cruel characters - they can't just be barren women, as the ones we've seen so far have taken their powers of punishment as far as they can, not exactly trying to stay their hand... Were they recruited from prisons from amongst inmates of a certain age who had been convicted of abusive and controlling crimes who they knew would be happier to carry out the kind of inhumane cruelty that would be needed to transform modern young women into subservience sex slaves? I find it chilling when the Martha rewards a handmaid that she previously maimed, treated her like a naughty child who's now behaving...with little treats that they have to both beg and be grateful for.

Gilead is grooming on a massive scale. Almost Dickensian in its portrayal of a world where 95% of human life has no value at all...

Do you mean the aunts, Sophie? I've been wondering the same. Although they do sort of recall that psychological experiment where participants were divided into "inmates" and "prison guards", does anyone know the one I mean?

Are you talking about the Aunts, Sophie?

Most people would turn into an Aunt given the opportunity. Probably not even a slow slide into it half the time. If you think you're not capable of that stuff you need to spend a bit more time examining the darkness within. Otherwise you're not actively holding back the tide you're just looking the other way and crossing your fingers. Exactly the kind of person who misses abuse going on on their doorstep because only dark and horrific people do that kind of thing not the Joneses next door (sorry but PMSL at the recruited from prisons idea, so few abusers are ever convicted).

Can you expand on the comparisons with the Story of O, cad? I'm not seeing it. On a superficial level the women in Story of O are all dressed the same or very similar, the girls in Jezebels are dressed in all sorts. Also I think once a girl was 'in' in the Story of O she had to be available to all, not like in Jezebels where the Commander can claim 'his' woman. Can think of loads of differences but not similarities, although it's a while since I last read Story of O.

Sorry yes, lol, I meant the Aunts...don't know where that came from! :)

Oooo a Handmaiden Tale thread!!! I love this show

Can you expand on the comparisons with the Story of O, cad

Well bat it seemed to me that there were a few basic similarities, in that there was a club/secret society where men brought their own sex-slaves for the perverted pleasures of other members. Also there is a character in both called "The Commander" - is that pure coincidence ? I did think Jezebels was some sort a brothel where the sex-slaves would be available to all club member too. Clearly, from what you say, that is not the case.

I haven't been watching the C4 programme beyond the first few episodes. And I once flicked through a graphic novel of the Story of O, but it was written in French - so I could't glean much from that either.

Batteriesallgone...bit harsh? It's just a discussion thread. And no, I damn well wouldn't just look the other way. I'm not an idiot, thanks, and you've got no idea about mine or anyone else's life, so please don't judge.

'If you think you're not capable of that stuff you need to spend a bit more time examining the darkness within. Otherwise you're not actively holding back the tide you're just looking the other way and crossing your fingers. Exactly the kind of person who misses abuse going on on their doorstep because only dark and horrific people do that kind of thing not the Joneses next door (sorry but PMSL at the recruited from prisons idea, so few abusers are ever convicted).'

Whaaaat it's not on until 10pm! Bloody football!

I can't stay awake that late! Looks like I'm catching up tomorrow.

Yep, my DH and 2 daughters are here on the sofa watching the footy. I'm here mumsnetting and waiting for 10pm. Usually wouldn't stay up but off work tomorrow.