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Telly addicts

Three Girls (BBC 9pm)

656 replies

ASauvingnonADay · 16/05/2017 17:28

Looking forward to watching this tonight. Feel it might be one to watch with your teenagers..

OP posts:
Leanback · 19/05/2017 23:10

pandora I agree. Was much harder for me to watch those girls be let down by adults over and over again than it was to watch them being groomed. To hear how they were described, as prositutes and slags etc really got to me

Imbroglio · 19/05/2017 23:16

Yes. Their treatment of Amber in particular horrific.

Also very uncomfortable watching the barristers questioning the girls. I appreciate that they had a job to do but it made me feel sick.

WoodPigeonInFlight · 19/05/2017 23:19

Can we please stop describing these men as Muslim. They are Pakistani, some of them happen to be Muslim but their faith has got absoloutely nothing to do with their actions. In fact, it is the most deplorable act to commit as a Muslim, and many would argue, committing such a crime would mean you had left the fold of Islam. So please drop the Muslim from their description, they don't deserve it.

If they are Muslims, they are Muslims. The fact that they have committed awful crimes does not make them not Muslims.

I think the men who committed these crimes should be treated in the same way by our criminal justice system, our media and our communities as anyone else would. Part of that is being able to discuss the issues frankly and without hiding things. People being unable to deal straightforwardly with the issues is part of the reason the girls in Rochdale were left in such a dreadful situation for so long.

LillianGish · 19/05/2017 23:20

It is shocking, but not so surprising - these cases have been well documented in the press. If anything I would say the drama is less hard hitting than some of the reports about it at the time. I remember listening to an interview with a victim on Radio 4 and being completely sickened. I'm not sure if the drama put across just how terrified these girls were - watching the tv I kept thinking just tell someone, but than I remembered listening to the girl on the radio describing how these men threatened to burn down her house, kill her parents and rape her sister. She truly believed no one could save her. I actually think the most sickening thing about this drama was learning that Sara Rowbotham had been taken off dealing with CSE and made redundant. In this case the men went to prison, but there is no happy ending if this is still going on and the long list of instances at the end of the programme only drummed that home further. I just wondered what hope there was if the one person who recognised the grooming gangs for what they were and did something about it had been totally sidelined.

Hepzibar · 19/05/2017 23:22

Agree it was uncomfortable watching the barristers doing their job questioning the girls.

For me, who works in Rochdale in education, watching episode 2 with the disgusting way police and Children's Social Care acted, was the most difficult. When you have lived through those times, with the shocking way referrals were dealt with, that was hard to watch.

It's better, but drifting back. Referrals now don't meet the very high 'Threshold'

WoodPigeonInFlight · 19/05/2017 23:39

Personally, I don't care whether the men involved in these crimes are Muslims or not. I just want the crimes to be dealt with, and action to be taken to stop these gangs from operating in dozens and dozens of towns and cities. And part of that is being able to talk about what is going on.

Here are some of the cases currently going through the courts:

Huddersfield child sex inquiry sees 29 in court:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39580591

Six Oxford arrests for child sex offences as eight men appear in court after Banbury raid:
www.oxfordtimes.co.uk/news/15191943.UPDATE__Six_arrests_for_child_sex_offences_as_eight_men_appear_in_court_after_raid/

This case was successfully prosecuted last year and is particularly horrific:

Group of men jailed for total of 169 years for sexual abuse of vulnerable schoolgirl:
www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/14564333.Group_of_men_jailed_for_total_of_169_years_for_sexual_abuse_of_vulnerable_schoolgirl/

There are plenty more.

PandoraMole · 20/05/2017 00:01

2017 and they still refer to 'inciting a child into prostitution' FFS Angry.

salsmum · 20/05/2017 03:30

I was confused when the girl had the termination they said to her the only way we can be sure of the abusers guilt is if you give evidence..surely they could have taken DNA from the terminated baby in the freezer that they kept ?. Very hard hitting.

MrsPeelyWaly · 20/05/2017 04:23

Sal, they had to hear her experience in graphic detail to ensure the right conviction.

Furrythings · 20/05/2017 07:39

Pandora I feel exactly the same. I too work in a school and it sickens me to think that any child could go through this. I honestly feel crap about it this morning and had some dreadful dreams on the subject last night. Not sure I can even handle the next two episodes if they are worse because I felt angry enough about that hideous social worker. Shameful.

deaddeadgood · 20/05/2017 09:07

I know this has become a serious debate rather than about the television programme but how brilliant was Lisa Riley. It's excellent seeing her play a serous role rather than the comedy character. She was brilliant.

MrsPeelyWaly · 20/05/2017 09:09

Oh wow! That was Lisa Reilly!

Elendon · 20/05/2017 09:48

2017 and they still refer to 'inciting a child into prostitution'

Absolutely agree Pandora

When will this attitude change?

WoodPigeonInFlight · 20/05/2017 10:07

I did ask a while back if anyone knows of an acceptable list of grooming gangs/rings prosecuted or convicted in 2016/2017. I haven't had any replies. Does anyone know of such a list?

ASauvingnonADay · 20/05/2017 10:17

Referrals now don't meet the very high 'Threshold'
We feel the same. Trying to get referrals through feels near impossible.

OP posts:
MadameSzyszkoBohush · 20/05/2017 10:19

This is probably a stupid question, but I don't understand why they can't just charge them with statutory rape? I thought they were under 16 at the beginning of it?

Jakeyboy1 · 20/05/2017 10:34

@MadameSzyszkoBohush obviously other issues to charge for as well but yeah I agree. So if a 13 year old with learning difficulties becomes pregnant by a 40+ man that isn't enough to spring things into action? We've gone very wrong somewhere.

thingscanonlygetbetterrrr · 20/05/2017 11:36

I could comment so much on this thread as I was the same as Sara in a similar role in a different part of the country at that same time. I felt the same frustrations and met the same apathy too. Nothing in the drama surprised me. One point I wanted to make in respect of Ruby with learning difficulties is that even at 16 or even 18 her capacity for informed consent is limited and she is someone that would benefit from close support throughout her life so she isn't an adult being exploited either herself or for access to any children she may have. Sadly that level of support isn't available. If we want this abuse to be reduced (it will never be eradicated, it's been going on as long as there have been humans), we need a national consensus with a 25-30 year plan to change attitudes to women, children, men, parenting, role of society, role of government. All of this needs strong research based non political strategy and funding, the cost in monetary and human terms to do nothing is far greater. 10-15 years later I'm not convinced what we are doing now is significantly more effective than back then.

Sprinklestar · 20/05/2017 13:10

I grew up in one of the Northern market towns mentioned upthread. This was going on twenty years ago when I was a teenager and it's still going on today. It was well known about, by everyone in power and very little was and is done to tackle the root cause of the problem due to the need to maintain 'community relations'.

This isn't a crime committed by true Muslims. Genuine Muslims would be appalled at this behavior. In the West Yorkshire town where I grew up, and this continues, it was Pakistani men (who may or may not also have been Muslims). That is not a racist comment, it is the truth. The grooming of white teenage girls, in this planned and group manner, is carried out primarily by Pakistani men. Not all Pakistani men, obviously, but there is an undeniable and identifiable trend.

So - why is this not being tackled? And I don't mean the tokenistic efforts that go on today. Secondly, where are the women in this? Where are these men's mothers, wives, daughters? These are 'family' men supposedly. Why are their wives and mothers not condemning their behavior? In prisons, child abusers and paedophiles are the lowest of the low. But where are the women from these communities? Why are they not standing up and calling out the men on their behavior? We're not talking about first generation immigrants who lack the language or awareness of where to go to report crime. These are woman who were born and brought up in Dewsbury, Bradford, Huddersfield, Keighley, Halifax. There is no way on earth that these women don't know what is going on.

lollylou2876 · 20/05/2017 13:19

Please add and support Rochdale Survivor's Association

m.facebook.com/home.php?refsrc=https%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.com%2Flogin%2Fdevice-based%2Fpassword%2F&_rdr

WoodPigeonInFlight · 20/05/2017 13:47

How about just imaging if there were gangs of white men in towns all around the country systematically targeting Muslim girls for abuse, rape, and violence. Try to think how we would be discussing that.

Would people want to steer any discussion away from the perpetrators and want to focus on the victims and the failures of the authorities?

Would anyone who tried to suggest there was a racial or cultural element to the crimes be accused of stoking racist divisions?

I asked these questions earlier on. None of the posters saying there is no cultural element to these street grooming gang crimes and that we shouldn't mention that the vast majority (not all) of the perpetrators are Asian Muslims and that the vast majority of the victims (not all) are white girls have come back to me on my little "thought experiment" on how we would be discussing these crimes and where we would be focusing our outrage and attention if there were dozens and dozens of gangs of white men systematically grooming, raping and abusing Muslim girls.

WoodPigeonInFlight · 20/05/2017 13:50

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/762292/Rothernham-abuse-trial-Allah-akbar-jail

Shouts of ‘Allahu Akbar’ erupt in court as Rotherham men JAILED for child sex abuse

A WOMAN who was sexually exploited by a number of men in Rotherham from the age of 11 and made pregnant when she was 12 has watched as five of her abusers were given jail sentences of up to 20 years

OutToGetYou · 20/05/2017 14:03

The acting was amazing - the girls but also the parents and the men, horrible for them too.

Years ago, when I was 18, I went with a college friend to her boyfriend's brother's flat. He was Asian, the flat was full of Asian men, there were drugs, there was alcohol. We were 18 but he had been her boyfriend for many years, at least since age 14. I was offered both drugs and alcohol but didn't have any as I didn't drink then (I've never taken drugs). Now, it may all have been 'innocent' but it has suddenly made me wonder......
Nothing happened and she and I went off out on our own and then back to her mum's where we were staying.

That was Bristol.
She got pregnant by him at 18 and the baby was adopted.

lollylou2876 · 20/05/2017 14:04

The way in which the Three Girls were treated, is rule rather than the exception, even as we speak today, in Rochdale, young girls are referred to ss by the police for protection and unless a death threat was/is made, they are not seen as a priority.

Many survivors, even today as I write this, are ignored because official agencies have a vested interest to protect themselves rather than do what is right - (please see IICSA inquiry onto Knowl Hill Rochdale).

The following is not intended to, take away or disresoect the great efforts of our brave soldiers, but to highlight the direct discrimination against Sexual abuse/offence survivors in the NHS today.

A Sexual Abuse survivor who has suffered 10 years of emotional, physical & regular Sexual abuse (rape) in the family home.

A soldier served 3 years in an active war zone,

Both have PTSD and meet at at a therapy group, the soldier cries when he hears how the abuse victim, who told ss at 13 to be fobbed off as and abused further yet her father went on to get a 20 year sentence, 15 years later, yet she can't even get a referral off her gp, unless she's says she is suicidal and has been repeatedly fobbed off for 17 years, losing a decent career in the civil service, because she is fobbed off with tablets rather than the psychological treatment she needs.

He then explains how he has had every support and therapy since his return, and is well on his way to recovery, he finds it hard to believe they live in the same area, with the same illness, and the same services.

That is one example of the direct discrimination & service barriers survivors face at a grass roots level, each and every day.

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