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Telly addicts

Three Girls (BBC 9pm)

656 replies

ASauvingnonADay · 16/05/2017 17:28

Looking forward to watching this tonight. Feel it might be one to watch with your teenagers..

OP posts:
LillianGish · 18/05/2017 19:54

There would have been more evidence if they had spoken up. How much more evidence did there need to be? One of the girls had the DNA of one of her abusers all over her knickers, a 13-year-old girl with learning difficulties had aborted the foetus of another - how could this evidence not be considered adequate? Because of the assumptions that society makes about "girls like that". I really can't see why you don't get that?

Elendon · 18/05/2017 19:56

And heaven only knows that there was collusion to prostitution of young girls by the police too.

Who remembers the BBC programme about this set in Yorkshire?

Elendon · 18/05/2017 19:59

There is undoubtedly abuse by Asian British men on White British girls because they know they are vulnerable and so groom them.

White British men do the same. They do it on White British girls and White British boys.

TizzyDongue · 18/05/2017 20:00

Eldon I'm not too sure that when people speak of chaotic homes or lifestyle they mean ballet and piano lessons on the same day.

As far as I understand it refers to the lack of stability, such as: contestant change in which family members are present in the home; being in and out of care; supply and withdrawing of parental love and care.

claritytobeclear · 18/05/2017 20:01

I do 'get that', Lillian

The only point where my view diverges from your own, as far as I can see, is that I feel it is also important to tackle the factors which cause, allow and continue to allow, the perpetrators to commit these crimes. I feel the communities they live amongst have a responsibility to consider this and where their own responsibility (as in their ability to respond) lies.

LillianGish · 18/05/2017 20:07

it is also important to tackle the factors which cause, allow and continue to allow, the perpetrators to commit these crimes Would you agree that one of the main factors here is the fact that the perpetrators are confident they will get away with it because their victims won't be believed - and that is why they target them in the first place.

Elendon · 18/05/2017 20:08

Anyway, really looking forward to the conclusion tonight. But I've recently watched National Treasure. Everyone should watch that too.

Fuck off abusive men.

And how much does all this cost to the taxpayer? We pay judges, the thousands involved in the CPS, barristers, solicitors, social services. CSE. The Prison Estate.

All because men want sex with young girls. It costs us as tax payers billions. Because Penis.

claritytobeclear · 18/05/2017 20:10

I never denied it, Lillian. If you go back and read all my posts you'll find I made the same point myself.

Elendon · 18/05/2017 20:11

they will get away with it because their victims won't be believed - and that is why they target them in the first place.

Which is why these attitudes should change before midway to the 21st Century. This was in the second decade of this century.

We women think we are equal in our society and there is no need for feminism?

claritytobeclear · 18/05/2017 20:12

What I am saying is that if more people cared, about the victims no matter their background, including those communities where the abuse and grooming (some fairly openly) occurred amongst, our society would be altogether a safer place.

Elendon · 18/05/2017 20:13

I bet those social workers were all empowerment and we're all equal type of women ( especially when she said the conversation was not appropriate).

Why do we still have to challenge attitudes? Are we not civilised?

LillianGish · 18/05/2017 20:15

Clarity hurray we agree.

Elendon · 18/05/2017 20:22

supply and withdrawing of parental love

happens frequently in non chaotic homes

contestant change in which family members are present in the home

I'm sorry, but I don't understand this. Do you mean constant change of family members? If so then granddad who loves to pick up the child, may well love it for another reason.

Being in and out of care

But none of the victims were in this bracket, though I'm sure some were. And perhaps being put in a Mother and Baby Unit and then out again counts as being in and out of care.

And let's not forget, it was the so called 'chaotic' lifestyle of white British. Why are so many children coming from homes that are chaotic?

claritytobeclear · 18/05/2017 20:22

That's good, Lillian.

rale124 · 18/05/2017 20:27

This is whitewashing to an extent. The programme is careful to mention the offenders ethnicity enough times yet makes not a single bit of commentary about the political policies which have led to this situation.

It all makes it feel very hollow for what should be a victory for these girls and the wider white working class who have and continue to be neglected and ignored by the wider middle class centric society. This has been going on for decades and not just Rotherham, Rochdale, Oldham etc but virtually every area within the North of England with a sizeable Pakistani Muslim population and some in the South such as Luton. It was happening when I was at school in a deprived Northern city which isn't publicly known for Pakistani street gang abuse. I've tried telling people for years but was dismissed as a racist and a bigot and a liar by people who mainly if not exclusively were not from Northern working class backgrounds...it didn't suit their politics to believe me then.

Now the rest of society has been forced to accept the grim reality of what has happened the very people who helped in protraying it as an EDL conspiracy theory want to create their own analysis of it instead of simply accepting the analysis of the people who have actually lived it.

Intrestingly enough this analysis is devoid of cultural commentary and instead attempts to lay blame at 'classist' and 'sexist' authorities. Which conveniently neglects any self blame or guilt and suits their ideology perfect. But it forgets to mention one of the major reasons the authorities failed these girls is because of the culture of political correctness endemic within this country which the offenders knowingly used to intimidate officials. There is no other profession in this country where unproven allegations of racism are as toxic to an individuals career and life than the police thanks to decades of left wing criticism and lobbying of the police.

When a vunerable white girl is called a 'white bitch' while been beaten by a Pakistani man for daring to fight back his attempts to rape her, when one of the rapists screams 'Allah Akbur' when been sentenced in court, when the father of one of the girls is convicted of inciting racial hatred for confronting the rapist...how can it be anything else but cultural?

Classism did have a part to play undeniablely. In the sense middle and upper classes sees working class lives as expendable in persuit of their political aims of a multicultural society. Prehaps out of arrogance, they see the token Westernised middle class Pakistani who has abandoned their traditional cultural values of seeing women as property and hanging homosexuals as indicative of Pakistani immigration to the UK and any working class person (who has to live with the legion of Pakistanis intent on retaining their traditional cultural values) who disagrees must just be a closet bigot and liar.

Probably the place that is most evident with is with the English Defence League (EDL) and Unite Against Fascism (UAF) who regularly counter protest EDL demos in an attempt to deny them their freedom of speech. While the EDL is portrayed as violent scummy thugs UAF is portrayed as idealistic, well meaning young people despite consistently achieving 10x the arrests at demos. Prehaps this is because the EDL is made of blue collar, rough around the edges, working class men where as UAF is made up of privilaged middle class students (who are in fact violent radicals intent on using political violence to crush dissenting opinions).

Ultimately not all cultures are equal. If you want one of the most sexist, homophobic and bigoted cultures in the world taking over communities in the UK please continue to support lax immigration laws which allow people unwilling to abandon them for mainstream British values to enter. However note it is not you who will bare the brunt of that decision, once again it will be the working class who suffer while you are protected in your leafy suburbs by your wealth.

Itscurtainsforyou · 18/05/2017 20:34

This has been harrowing, compelling viewing. It's so important that this story is being told, but it's made me so angry. The woman who Maxine Peake is portraying deserves a medal.

I wish we knew what happened to the girls, but that's probably my hope for a Disney ending Sad

Elendon · 18/05/2017 20:34

Sexual abuse of young girls and young men has nothing to do with race.

The manner in which it is done has all to do with race.

I'm sure, nay positive, that there are members of the EDL and the UAF who sexually abuse young people.

claritytobeclear · 18/05/2017 20:40

I don't think this is about Asian communities exclusively, at all.

It is about any community that offers extensive contacts and protects and defends 'it's own' over those that are seen as outsiders even when crimes are committed. Yes, some Asian communities fit this profile but so do some Catholic communities, so do the people who surround celebrity, so do some institutions that are supposed to care for the vulnerable etc etc.

LillianGish · 18/05/2017 20:45

Clarity we agree again Smile

rale124 · 18/05/2017 21:01

Sheer whataboutery.

Yes the Catholic community and institutions covered up crimes within, and it was widely with a capital W condemned for doing so including by myself (I am a vocal critic of the morally bankrupt Catholic Church despite coming from a Catholic family). But that has nothing to do with the cases in question.

We are talking about a very specific type of CSE offending here which is prolific among the North of England, one which was covered up and ignored by wider society until it could no longer because it didn't suit its disney movie view of multiculturalism.

This has nothing to do with race and everything to do with culture. This will not stop until society wakes up and accepts a huge amount of Pakistanis and other nationalities coming from Islamic theoracies particularly those living within British working class communities from Bradford to Oldham view white natives as 'kuffar" and white working class girls as slags.

My point about the EDL and UAF was about societies classist portrayals of them. Maybe there is abusers among them however I doubt its prolific considering the small size of both groups and if it was discovered it would again be widely condemed. But again not my point.

claritytobeclear · 18/05/2017 21:06

Unless people recognise the faults within their own cultures, their own communities abuses will continue to happen. It perpetuates the 'us and them mindset'. The only way for all victim's voices to be heard is for society to be more inclusive, not less.

rale124 · 18/05/2017 21:10

Inclusive of a culture which justifies raping other cultures (including white British and Sihk) young girls? No thanks.

claritytobeclear · 18/05/2017 21:13

Many, involved, in this case, were complicit in the way these girl's experiences were dismissed. It was not only the perpetrator's culture and community at fault.

ASauvingnonADay · 18/05/2017 21:19

I feel so cross already 😡

OP posts:
DeleteOrDecay · 18/05/2017 21:21

Watching this now, I'm so angry at how Holly has been treated in court. A horrific case all roundAngry

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