LOD Series 4 Big Fellas and Wee Girls-this way, we need to look further Ifield.

[FeralBeryl]

New and maybe our last thread

I can't get past the username business. I've never worked anywhere you could choose your own username.

Loving reading all these theories - although Ican't remember all the characters from previous episodes. Do you all keep files?!

Interesting the comment about Maneet on the phone to warn Steve and was she really calling him. When he is in the lift he only gets the voicemail from Hastings doesn't he?

I thought he got the voicemail from Maneet. It's so broken up though that it's hard to hear.

I watched ep 1 again - disappearing from iplayer tonight - and am now thinking Roz might have been innocent to start with. The bit about facts and truth from Hilton, for want of a better example, it's like when one child leaves the Nutella open in the morning and the second child is seen using it in the afternoon - second child obviously guilty of former's crime. The truth is completely different to the facts that you observe. So has Hilton/TBB set up the facts which Roz is now interpreting as truth - or being forced to interpret as truth because Hilton has some hold on her. He also said he had first hand experience of how good she was implying they had worked together before her career break.

I am hoping she comes clean at the end and says 'Because I'm a police officer' a la Denton.

beargrass Same here - I watched the bits with the usernames with a frown on my face. I imagine the police force would have much more sensible IT procedures.

I'm definitely getting more out of the show by reading these comments.

Really it all hangs on what happened in Tim Ifield's flat between him and Roz (and anyone else?) - how did it get from electric saw in the face to slit throat and MRSA'd arm scratches?

I need to rewatch last week's ep, all the stuff about Jackie whatsit and freezers and gangs etc has gone over my head. Shouldn't have watched it on the iPlayer at 11pm.

Also, the question I have - with Michael Farmer almost locked up for the murders, why is someone defrosting and scattering bits of Leonie? If they wanted MF to go down for it surely they'd keep the body in the freezer for another month or so. Bringing it out now just suggests they want MF to get off, but why?

I'm definitely swinging towards her being blackmailed/ threatened.

beargrass just off top of my head, bodyparts being brought out to stitch up Nick as an accomplice ? Maybe he isn't involved at all either but evidence from new find will point to him.

I think Roz took the bag Ifield had and then is using it to secure her safety. She understands what happens to police when they get accused of corruption. The brush was in Ifield's flat.

As for her getting MRSA? She has been handling samples of dead people with an open wound. I bet Ifield's flat was full of MRSA bacteria.

Dubious thanks, I've had time to rewatch the car hitting Hana and the abduction again and agree, what was that other poster (different forum) on about? So, that's a useless distraction.

What I have noted from the bits of Episode 1 that I've rewatched is that Farmer is unlikely to have been genuinely guilty of the rape of Jade. I say that because of his learning difficulties and willingness to say what others want to hear and because he initially said she was complicit. When asked about it, she's shifty with her 'yeah well then he said he done it, so what's the problem?' I think there must be more to her than we've seen. The door to her house has broken panes boarded over and her first words before anything are 'what's he done now?' He being the father of her child presumably. I really want to know who she's involved with. It must link with a story about gangs on the estate and possibly balaclava thugs.

Roz at first seems insistent on treating Farmer properly. At the interview with Kate in prison she seems caring towards him. I'd forgotten he has a wound on his temple at this point and was limping, which he puts down to having 'one of my falls' That's when the conversation about making sure he's looked after better takes place.

After Roz's conversations with Hilton, her attitude changes then about the clean up rates. I think we have some of the best and the worst lines in this episode. Hilton about the public's concerns 'they're killing us on Twitter' oh please and Hastings after Hilton's tv announcement 'ACC Hilton's audition for Crimewatch went well'

I think Roz's whole demeanour when she's sitting on the edge of the bed at home is really strange and not what you'd expect at all. She's a senior, experienced detective, not a rookie on her first case. It's been months, not years. She says 'It's over. It's finally over' That's definitely got to relate to something we don't yet know. It also kind of links with something Ted says to Kate and Steve, implying that Roz was put on Operation Trapdoor for a specific reason.

I'm convinced that it's impossible to work this series out if you haven't seen the ones before.

I have a question as well, Tim's position was Forensic Coordinator, Roz is Detective Chief Inspector, yet when they meet in the corridors, he addresses her simply as Roz? Can someone explain how that comes about?

It's such a shame that episode 1 expires before episode 6 airs as I'd really like to binge watch the series as a whole. I suppose that'll make for a bit more revenue though.

Agree Elendon that bag looks like an insurance grab for her. Wonder where she's stashed it now though..

I also think Jade is going to be more relevant. From that initial interview with Steve, I feel she was coerced by her mum to make a statement saying she didn't want to have sex with Michael, also the broken door etc. How long ago was the attack meant to have occurred? Is there any chance the frying baby could be his? or Jimmy Lakewells

Roz and Tim did seem a bit over familiar in earlier episodes, plus the fact that she knew where he lived and just turned up etc. How common would that be? Does anyone know?

Tim's position was Forensic Coordinator, Roz is Detective Chief Inspector, yet when they meet in the corridors, he addresses her simply as Roz? Can someone explain how that comes about?

I read that as Tim being a bit 'above himself' and not really respecting or recognising authority. Which might be one of the things that pissed Roz off about him; their relationship is very prickly.

Good point about Jade saying 'what's he done now?' If that does link back to someone from another series, that's pretty long-arc and assumes a lot of viewer knowledge/recall. I kind of hope it doesn't turn out that way, although I don't know how else to explain it.

'frying baby'

Ah I know this Beryl the attack on Jade was when she was 15 and Farmer was 16. He's now 23-34. It was at his mum's house when she was out. His learning difficulties were diagnosed when he was 11. The crying can't be from a child who'd be 7 or 8, it's a little one.
She's mixed up with a bad 'un, mark my words

this is about the only thing I can say with any certainty.

Sapphire their relationship became very prickly right from when he told her off for her officers trampling the crime scene, but I think it went downhill because he didn't feel she gave enough importance to his suspicions over the evidence from Farmer's house and his later findings with the footprint - rather than them always being a bit off with each other. Although quite why they only found one footprint is a bit beyond me, the size 10 one I mean. He felt his specialty was being dismissed.

If their relationship had been strained before this case though, I really think she'd have pulled him up on overfamiliarity and not addressing her as Ma'am like the rest of the personnel apart from her superior officers.

Everyone sticks very much to protocol don't they. I'm visualizing Hastings barking at Buckells to remain at attention when he's in Hastings' office.

I thought it was more like he'd ALWAYS been a bit insubordinate about addressing people/telling them off for messing up his crime scene etc, and he and Roz just sort of rubbed along like that.

But maybe they do have history. Their chemistry is weird.

we start our kids cooking young round here!

Another thing which has got me suspecting Tim further being mixed up - his 'murder room' had a post it note saying EVIDENCE PLANTED I thought initially it was followed by question marks - but rewatching it last night, it was underlined twice. Does this mean he has planted it?
Also the evidence bags with cigarette stumps etc in that Roz snaffled out in her insurance bag - there is no way he would have those for a legitimate reason.
Cases have been thrown out because the chain of custody for evidence has been compromised. He would know and adhere to this.

The rape was 2009. Arnott said the date when he spoke to Jade. Farmer was 16.

Maybe whoever is forcing Maneet to give ac12 info away was also forcing Ifield to do something with evidence. He definitely looked uncomfortable during the scenes in the evidence room and also as pp said, the samples he had in his bag were obv there for dodgy reasons. But maybe he was trying to get the fraud exposed in a way that didn't implicate him so that Farmer didn't go to prison. He was very careful that his attendance at ac12 office was off the record. Then Roz fucked it all up by turning up at his flat when he was expecting the blackmailer person to come over, and said person assisted Roz with killing Tim and now she is being blackmailed too.

I really get the feeling that initially both Roz and Tim were on the level, albeit with some history between them.

I am now developing theories about the young lad in S1... who would now be arbour 19/20?

That said, I wondered if it was all sloppy middle class shorthand by JM to show he knows what a council estate is like... there's a lot of that in S1!

it always annoys me that the only actor who maintains his Scots accent is the crook Tommy Hunter

That was why I raised it Saphire to see if anyone knows for sure what kind of seniority Tim would have. I just can't see Roz settling for a lack of respect for her position. One, she certainly put him down when he tried to get her to pay attention to the anomalies he'd found and two, she's reaffirming her positon after her 'career break' She didn't have any problem in pushing AC-12 off the investigation into Ifield's murder when Steve and Hastings tried to assume the case, so I would've expected her to insist on formality from Ifield.

Beryl I've been banging on about that EVIDENCE PLANTED post it since I first saw it when Roz entered the flat after Ifield's body was discovered. It's so ambiguous.

At first I suspected Ifield of planting evidence, but then when I watched again, I changed my mind and saw it as his belief that the hair clip and necklace trophies were planted at Farmer's house by the owner of the size 10 boot.

I was just thinking about those cigarette butt evidence bags, trying to wonder where I'd seen them. If Roz had been a bit more with it she should have left them in his flat; further evidence that he was a bit dodge.

Just thinking about how Roz is going to explain her hand and her husband to her colleagues.

re the 'evidence bags' with cigarette butts etc - Tim pulled them out of his black bag after he'd knockd Roz out when he went to get the balaclava and black jacket, he just looked at them and put them back - it seemed the only reason was to show the viewer.

Isn't it the case that the forensics officers don't work for the police, they work with them and are impartial? Aren't Roz and Ifield peers rather than boss and subordinate? Evidence has to be capable of standing up on its merits and it can be indicative of something rather than conclusive.

Roz was under pressure to get a result on Trapdoor. It is classic LOD that whoever is pulling the strings does something which puts a spanner in the works and means whoever it is who is being manipulated then has to try to get out of a pickle and that then makes them complicit in what is going on. That happened to Denton and Gates. Roz cried because she realised what she had been working on was undermined. She chose to try to plough ahead instead of following up the other potential line of enquiry. She chose not to say she had been Ifield's flat - not because she killed him but because someone else did and she'd end up in witness protection constantly looking over her shoulder or dead. She thought she could get a conviction which didn't implicate Tim's murderer(s) and it would all go away.

When they are at Ifield's flat she questions his attitude to her and he agrees that he does indeed report to her as she is his superior. She then asks why he is questioning her analysis of forensic data.