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The Moorside

531 replies

NancyDonahue · 06/02/2017 09:23

BBC dramatisation based on the kidnapping of Shannon Matthews. Starts Tuesday 7th February 9pm, starring Sheridan Smith.

Obviously a horrendous crime against a young child so I wasn't sure I'd want to watch, but it looks like it focuses on friends of the mother who headed up the search and barely features the child herself.

I love Sheridan Smith too so will give it a go.

OP posts:
ineedamoreadultieradult · 15/02/2017 18:27

Thanks OneWith it's definitely an interesting area of law.

OneWithTheForce · 15/02/2017 18:36

I suppose its the same as if two people, let's say mick Donovan and another man who didn't live with him, planned it exactly the same way as KM did with MD. the second man would be just as guilty of kidnapping because apart from not being the one who physically collected the child he would be just as responsible for it. Judge Judy has a phrase "but for your actions" meaning if it hadn't been for KMs actions the child would never have been kidnapped. She planned it, she facilitated it, she concealed it and she would have benefitted from it in exactly the same way as MD.

Boppity · 15/02/2017 18:48

Paddyplaistow can you add any more ?

Just from Craig's child
Porn convinction; the uncle Mike Donovan having his 2 daughters removed because he had sex with prostituties in front of them (yes really) plus Karen giving oral sex in front of her children .. Plus the 2y drugging of Shannon (and who knows about other 6 kids) ..

Basically sounds like all or some
Of these kids were seriously sexually abused.

The fact Leon rose, Shannon's dad, went to High Court to block serious case review by SS coming out about the 7 kids shows perhaps nasty &
Damaging content

I also, having had foster kids before, think the 'new identity' plus splitting up siblings & family
Members (GP) not allowed contact would more than likely be because of confirmed sexual abuse and to rehabilitate the children.

This is what happened with the Poppi Worthigton case top wasn't if? Kids split up and removed from
Family as inter generational sex abuse, incest & neglect.

Boppity · 15/02/2017 18:50

I also speculate the real reason Shannon was tethered and drugged was a sinister purpose in light of non sexual boundaries, I mention below. I doubt reason was reward money at all. I wonder if mick paid Karen to keep Shannon so he could use her or his friends could. Maybe we will
Never know, as it is confidential
To Shannon.

OneWithTheForce · 15/02/2017 18:53

I (maybe cynically) wondered if Leon Rose had the case review blocked because it would have revealed some unpleasant things about him and his lack of parenting of Shannon.

MrsJayy · 15/02/2017 18:57

It is just so grim those poor children Sad

MrsJayy · 15/02/2017 19:02

Children never recover from abuse and neglect I don't think even with fantastic fosterers a adopters the damage is done

MrsJayy · 15/02/2017 19:04

Of course Leon Rose did it for himself as well as Shannon he had Shannons brother living with him if it all came out people would turn on him for not protecting both of his children.

UltimateIdiot · 15/02/2017 19:16

It's just made me feel very sad.

I live on a similar estate and it's the same here.

You can guarantee that if they hadn't don't that to Shannon, that she and all her siblings would have been the same as Karen/Craig.

It's just a great big cycle and I don't even know how society can begin to stop it.

user1471463843 · 15/02/2017 19:21

If you helped plan a burglary however didn't actually commit it you would be guilty of conspiracy to commit burglary
In law sentencing the same at times harsher for conspiring.

Unbelievable the sentence in this case.

MrsJayy · 15/02/2017 19:35

ultimate me and Dh was talking about that earlier it is just a cycle generations doing the same things It is tragic.

OneWithTheForce · 15/02/2017 19:49

The thing is she was charged with kidnapping, the police and CPS clearly thought she was part of the kidnapping, neither her nor Donovan ever told the whole story so we dont actually know that she wasn't involved in the physical kidnapping and the jury found her guilty of the charge.

ineedamoreadultieradult · 15/02/2017 19:51

I do think there must be much more to this than has been released to the general public.

OneWithTheForce · 15/02/2017 19:54

Also if you planned a burglary and then deliberately left a door unlocked and withheld information then id say there is a higher chance of being charged with burglary because it isn't just conspiracy to commit

sashh · 15/02/2017 19:54

Can't believe the police missed the uncle. Surely if they had suspicions from the start they would have been more thoroughly searching properties of everyone known to Karen and boyfriend.

Easier said than done. The uncle used a different name and no one had contact with him while Shannon was missing. Battley Carr is a mile or two from Dewsbury Moor. I know out houses and sheds in Battley Carr were being searched for a week or two before Shannon was found.

So if I plan a burglary but get someone else to do it I can be convicted of burglary? Sorry I'm not trying to be awkward or defending her I just don't understand. Are you not an accessory rather then the perpetrator?

Isn't it 'conspiracy to kidnap'? Or one of these laws with several elements? So the planning and undertaking of the act by two or more people is the crime, not which actual part an individual did.

MrsJayy · 15/02/2017 19:55

There is more but we will never know I just dont understand the lack of boundry and responsibility of people

Bestthingever · 15/02/2017 20:40

Tbh this programme has offered little new information or perspective and wasn't even particularly entertaining. It all seems a bit pointless really.

HalfShellHero · 15/02/2017 21:13

Onewiththeforce I said that too about the Dad Leon Rose, very dodgy I think he got off lightly, and in the appeal when she said your dad's here hes even looking for you Hmm

FlowerOfTheValley · 15/02/2017 21:56

Sad all round. Very difficult for anyone to truly get over being kidnapped but to know your own mum was involved, how the fuck do you even begin to come to terms with that.

Horrible to think plenty of kids are brought up by families like those. As has been said, so the cycle begins again.

I hope Shannon and her siblings are in a much better place now.

I found the programme interesting and thought provoking but it's brought a lot of media coverage so I doubt it will have helped Shannon stirring it all up again.

user99009960546 · 15/02/2017 21:56

I watched this and I think my option of her changed? I've seen a lot of chat on fb about where she is meant to be living at present and despite what people are saying she isn't a danger!

I think she clearly had some learning disabilities and was very vulnerable and damaged but the fact of the matter is she should of never been left to have those children and keep them! My friend has actually adopted children that came from a women slot like Karen, the child was removed from her by 6 months old and given to my friend then the children she then had after were removed at birth and adopted (by my friend) sadly I also feel this children were also let down by SS and should never of been left with her.

Watching I'm not sure we know the real reason she did what she did

HalfShellHero · 15/02/2017 22:04

In fairness Karen' is a very extreme it's worrying that she's being uses as a poster child for 'benefit britain' ...

MipMipMip · 15/02/2017 22:43

I think the reason a lot of people have it in fir KM is that she doesn't appear to think she did anything wrong. Obviously we don't know how she is now but what was previously reported is that she was very much "it's not my fault, they made me do it, I didn't do anything wrong, look I'm on TV! " It's very hard to feel sorry for someone who appears completely unrepentant for farming her daughter and instead enjoyed the attention.

I am sorry that she was a victim of whatever she was a victim of but there's a lot of people who have had similar and don't do what she did. (Sorry, hope that makes sense). If anything it makes a lot of them, for example Julie and Natalie, more protective of children. I admit I have had no personal experience in this and I know that people will react in different ways.

MipMipMip · 15/02/2017 22:44

Harming, not farming.

DesolateWaist · 15/02/2017 23:45

I had no idea about the strap.

That shows a level of thinking and planning that may have been beyond KM.