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The Moorside

531 replies

NancyDonahue · 06/02/2017 09:23

BBC dramatisation based on the kidnapping of Shannon Matthews. Starts Tuesday 7th February 9pm, starring Sheridan Smith.

Obviously a horrendous crime against a young child so I wasn't sure I'd want to watch, but it looks like it focuses on friends of the mother who headed up the search and barely features the child herself.

I love Sheridan Smith too so will give it a go.

OP posts:
x2boys · 17/02/2017 14:35

When my son was assesed his IQ was 74 which is just over the limit i think mild learning disabillities starts at 72/73 again he probably wont go to university but he will live independently, i was advised exposure to experiences and help and encouragement all help. KM may well not have got that and she was weak and could be manipulated but she was also devious and manipulative herself and she had the capacity to know it was wrong. You could argue the system didnt help she was never expected to work for example was given a home and money but none of this excuses what she did.

HmmOkay · 17/02/2017 14:44

"Following her arrest she was reassessed for learning difficulties and there were none".

Where did you read that, mouldy?

Do you have a link?

OneWithTheForce · 17/02/2017 14:58

I'm not convinced that her "acting" was due to being savvy enough to pull it off. I think it was a case of her not being smart enough to try and fake her behaviours and so she just acted the only way she knew which was a very childlike "I don't know what's happened her" and very little else. People knew she wasn't very intelligent so I don't think would have been expecting much more from her than that. I think her lack of intelligence was what kept her out of a cell for so long. People just didn't think her capable of that level of deceit so didn't look to her for clues.

bastedyoungturkey · 18/02/2017 07:45

My seven penneth worth is that the programme was never intended to be about Shannon and what happened to her. Or really about the case at all.

I think it wasn't more made to show that cycle of abuse and deprivation. It came out throughout the programme that certainly all of the women had been abused - but they all reacted to that in a different way.

I think because of what had happened to Julie (abuse and the cot death baby) she wanted to get involved to protect Shannon - I think that was her motivation, not so much the public attention. I felt that Julie suspected all along that things weren't all legit with the disappearance but that she trusted that the police would get to the bottom of it once Shannon was found. I think Julie wanted what was best for Shannon not Karen.

I didn't want to know the details of what happened to Shannon- there's enough of that on here and in the papers. I actually support the BBC for how it was made. I didn't hear the interview with the producer on radio 4 but apparently he was insisting that it wasn't about Shannon. It wasn't.

MiscellaneousAssortment · 18/02/2017 09:55

OneWith I think you have hit the nail on the head completely.

Actually that's one of the most insightful things I've read in this whole furore created by this program.

And I think your thoughts give much more clarity than the program itself, which left motivations and actions opaque.

DesolateWaist · 18/02/2017 09:58

I agree Basted. I heard the interview and was quite cross with his insistence that it wasn't about her. But now that I've seen it I honestly think that it wasn't.

Iamastonished · 18/02/2017 20:47

One of my friends was involved in the case and said that the TV portrayal was pretty accurate. She also said that they knew from the beginning that Karen Matthews was involved because she was already known to SS.

DesolateWaist · 18/02/2017 20:49

She also said that they knew from the beginning that Karen Matthews was involved because she was already known to SS.

Just because she was known to SS is no reason to assume that she would do something like this. I know people who are 'known to SS' and I know that they would never do anything like this.

Iamastonished · 18/02/2017 21:13

I can't reveal my sources, but I can assure you social services knew that Karen Matthews was involved. Clearly they didn't know exactly what happened until Shannon was found, but they knew alright.

atheistmantis · 19/02/2017 00:01

Ditto what the last poster said. I finally watched both episodes tonight, some of the most harrowing tv I've watched.

Davros · 19/02/2017 01:18

Wouldn't KM have been charged with kidnapping through the Joint Enterprise law? Or was this all before that came in?

salsmum · 19/02/2017 04:30

I was distracted when I saw the detective I just kept thinking of Benidorm that she stars in as the harassed mum

FairfaxAikman · 19/02/2017 08:38

Davros joint enterprise wasn't a new thing. However there was a lot of pressure to reform it from around 2010 onwards

Davros · 19/02/2017 11:05

I've heard some coverage of moves to reform it. I think some families are campaigning to reform it who have a relative in prison for murder but they apparently did not actually commit the act

FabulouslyGlamourousFerret · 19/02/2017 11:48

I wouldn't describe at as remotely 'harrowing'! I was more concerned with how I don't like Sheridan Smith anymore Confused I've loved her in everything else.

FabulouslyGlamourousFerret · 19/02/2017 11:52

I didn't articulate that very well! Of course the SM case is awful, I found something missing with the programme though and can't put my finger on it.

In a strange way it may have been a blessing for SM and her siblings as the alternative for them would have been the last 8 years living in that awful environment with the paedophile boyfriend Sad

GloGirl · 19/02/2017 14:35

What confused me and reading the bit of info above about Craig's family was the involvement of the "MIL" and "SIL" - it was clear they were weird and making the home uncomfortable - the TV show tried to highlight that but then they just disappeared from the drama. What involvement did they have? Why would they have helped Mick when Craig was their son/brother? I couldn't follow that thread.

SimplyNigella · 19/02/2017 16:36

Weren't they later arrested but released without charge?

I don't understand why none of the family, those two included, failed to mention Donovan when asked about their family. Unless they were trying to hide him because of the alleged kidnap of his daughter on his record.

Arkengarthdale · 19/02/2017 17:10

Donovan was Craig's uncle - his mother's brother. Yes they're linked

purpleladybird · 19/02/2017 17:20

If the police/SS knew from the start Karen was involved, how did it take so long and a chance encounter to find her? Would her phone records, etc not have shown a conversation with Mick Donnovan? I know Shannon's family tree was complex, but I would have thought a step-uncle would come up very quickly?

I remember following the case and didn't suspect. I normally have a good nose for that kind of thing. In fact I laughed at a friend who suggested Karen was involved after Shannon was found.

Iamastonished · 19/02/2017 17:31

I don't know what the police suspected, but KM was well known to SS, obviously, and something mustn't have rung true. Also, in most missing child cases it is usually a family member who is involved so I suppose all the family members were under suspicion.

I remember the case very well as Dewsbury is only two junctions from us on the M1 and DD was a similar age to Shannon Matthews, so all parents round here were extra vigilant over their children until they knew what had happened.

CoolCarrie · 19/02/2017 18:24

If the police really thought the family were involved, why did it still take 24 days to find that poor wee girl? Honestly? Did the police really take that chance to play a waiting game, that poor girl could have died, or been assaulted or raped in those 24 days.
In the desperately sad, sickening philpot case, the police bugged the bastards who did it, but that was a different set of circumstances.

willstarttomorrow · 19/02/2017 19:41

Just caught up after being away. This is very local to me and I work in a neighbouring local authority. I know social workers who cover that estate. Iamastonished if children's services had any concerns this was a possibility I am sure even the most stretched team would have issued proceedings in the family courts. I think they would have met threshold. Yes the family was known to social care, as in most cases for neglect. If social workers in Dewsbury have some magic powers to see into the future and have CCTV 24 hour footage of families that is most unusual. Contary to the public perception of social work most of it is slogging away working with famileis where addiction, mental health, domestic violence and social isolation is the issue. The 'big' stuff such as sexual abuse, severe physical/emotional abuse to the point a child's life is threatened usually comes to us when they turn up at A+E. This is when the police question the neighbours and they reveal for several months they were aware of it but assumed it was up to the authorities to deal with.

emilybrontescorset · 19/02/2017 20:52

From my understanding it took the police a month to find Shannon because the uncle was using a false name.
The family also conveniently 'forgot' to mention him.
There is also the fact that due to the nature of Karen's relationships, the I've had to trawl through hundreds of names.
It was not a simple fact of mum, dad and 2 children. 4 grandparents and 2 aunties and uncles.
There were so many people with a loose connection to Shannon.

mouldycheesefan · 20/02/2017 09:10

A serious case review found that ss could not have predicted the kidnap. That said she obviously was in need of a much higher level of ss involvement than she had. But with cuts to services vulnerable children will be put at risk.
SS did not "know" that KM was involved in the disappearance. They may have suspected but they did not know. Same as the police.