The Moorside

[NancyDonahue]

BBC dramatisation based on the kidnapping of Shannon Matthews. Starts Tuesday 7th February 9pm, starring Sheridan Smith.

Obviously a horrendous crime against a young child so I wasn't sure I'd want to watch, but it looks like it focuses on friends of the mother who headed up the search and barely features the child herself.

I love Sheridan Smith too so will give it a go.

definitely got some sort of personality disorder!!!! I'm thinking histrionic.

Anyone would think that this kind of personality disorder only presents itself in ppl who come from council estate backgrounds going by some of the posts ive seen on here.

Yet she committed the most awful crime
No she didn't and saying that doesn't diminish what her kids went through and the damage that may have happened. But Karen is also damaged and I do have some sympathy for her.

"Anyone would think that this kind of personality disorder only presents itself in ppl who come from council estate backgrounds going by some of the posts ive seen on here."

I know what you mean HelenaDove.
I was brought up on a similar estate and live on a (different) estate now. There are some problems but the vast majority of people you meet are just ordinary people.
That comes across in the programme as well. Julie has her vulnerabilities and flaws but she's a normal, decent person. Natalie is sharp as a tack and an exemplary mother.
Poverty doesn't make people neglectful or abusive. We had a social worker on here once and she explained that you see all the same risk factors in middle class homes. The difference is that money allows people to mitigate against the risks. So, you might be a drinker but there's still money left over after you've bought your drink. You might not cope well with children, but you can hire childcare so it doesn't become a problem.
I personally know some very well off people who were treated terribly by their parents. We have a long running thread on here filled with privileged kids who were lucky enough to be taken to stately homes

Me and Dh both grew up on council estates dds grew up in a council house till dd2 was 7 we and our neighbours and friends are just ordinary people going to work and sending kids out to school., however you do get people where dysfunction and chaos is normal life and a lot of this dysfunction and chaos are in sprawling estates like Karen Mathews lived on.

Is in* Generations of chaos breeds chaos drink drugs unemployment abuse neglect lack of boundry lack of responsibility living by 'own rules' fighting the list is endless and how Karen Mathews lived is how many peole live. Her crime aside she lived the way she lived because she didn't care enough about herself and children KM could go on a million parenting courses she would never change.

I work in a school and in a very middle class school and some of the things I hear and am told by different children upsets me. I wouldn't say it counts as emotional abuse but sometimes can be very unpleasant or manipulative ifyswim. These are people who are educated enough to understand how it could impact their children but are too wrapped up in themselves. Yet because they have good jobs, nice homes and send their dcs to school with organic snacks, people are less judgey if a child comes in crying in the morning and won't say why.

Best that is a bloody shame, I remember reading a post on here from a woman who grew up in what her parents called Bohemian the poster said she was neglected but not 1 person cared enough tp help her and her siblings because she came from a nice house (it was filthy) wealthy parents (there was a trust) and on and on it went I thought poor woman

My no 1 hate is parents who are divorced or estranged and they insist on criticising the other parent to the children (sometimes with a few swear words thrown in). It's so upsetting for the children.

I just caught up on episode 2 last night and I'm sure you have all dissected it already.
But I found the scene where ss came to remove KM's children difficult to watch, the wailing and protesting was heart wrenching. Then it cuts to her calmly eating crisps like nothing has happened. Oh my word
When KM shows Julie the bracelet she was given and her acknowledgement that she thought her friend wouldn't notice it wasn't the same one.
It was very well played but has left a lot of unanswered questions.

Not the point I know, but the bit where Julie says "If you don't let them take the kids now, you'll never get them back"
That is such bad advice.
If social services ask you to put your kids in care voluntarily there is nothing wrong with saying "that's a big decision. I need to speak to my solicitor first".
I guess from a dramatic point of view it shows how Julies loyalties are confused while she tries to process what's actually going on.

The crisp eating was odd wasn't it. I read that the boyfriend was only 22 at the time he moved in when he was 19 KM had let him and his mates drink in the house

"however you do get people where dysfunction and chaos is normal life and a lot of this dysfunction and chaos are in sprawling estates like Karen Mathews lived on."
I do know what you mean MrsJay. Tbh, I find it really hard to discuss on Mumsnet though because some people can't make a distinction because so many posters can't tell the difference between poverty and neglect. Or they think of dysfunctional behaviour as things like eating tea in front of the television or children playing out in the street. Stuff that I would put in the "harmless cultural differences" catagory.

Sorry the sentence structure was all over the place there. You can tell roughly what I mean, I hope.

Yes I got you and I agree it is quite a difficult thing to talk about on mumsnet as everybody has different notions of neglect and dysfuction

Yes re the middle class thing. Did anyone watch Damned, the social worker comedy with Jo Brand? I say comedy, more gallows humour often given the setting. There's one bit where a middle-class couple have left their child in a supermarket and when the social workers find it, one is pushing for it to go further, as some kind of intervention or something saying it is neglect, but when the parents arrive Jo Brand says oh it's "middle class well dressed" we'll probably just give them a ticking off and send them on their way. I don't know if that's really accurate or not, but it maybe gives you an idea of the differences.

Re: the scene where KM is told that her children are going to be taken into care; I don't think Julie or KM would have thought of saying 'That's a big decision, I need to consult my solicitor first'.

Yes i watched that found it quite funny maybe my humour is really really dark i did laugh at the namby pamby social worker going on about a kid not eating kale and the rest of the table giving her a

Did that scene really happen or was it purely for dramatic purposes. If it was rl how did she swing from one extreme to the next. Was she acting and doing/saying what was expected of her or was she so easily pacified with a bag of monster munch. So many questions.

My last post was about the Jo Brand programme sorry didnt make that as clear as I thought I had.

I agree Thinkingbob I think, by that stage Julie was well out of her depth but still feeling like she had to be "supportive" and in control of the situation. Hence the terrible advice.

The crisp thing maybe happened but i think the way it was shown was for dramatic effect because it was the scene straight after.

ThinkingBLOND sorry

I have worked with parents who were like Karen and really didn't see the seriousness of the situation and were more bothered about getting a cup of tea and a cake 😢.

I find it heartbreaking and it makes me realise how fortunate my two teenagers are!

MrsJayy I did too, I must have the same problem!

Yes and it struck me whenever KM had to leave to go talk to the police or whoever she just upped and left and didn't give the children a second thought and the children just cracked on and barely noticed. Obviously you don't know if it was really like that in the house but I found it sad.