Game of Thrones S6 ep 2 - DO NOT CLICK ON THIS UNLESS YOU WANT TO SEE VERY SPOILERY DISCUSSION INDEED

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THIS THREAD IS FOR DISCUSSING EP 2, INCLUDING SPOILERS. READ NO FURTHER IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS. GOT THAT? SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS

QUITE, QUITE SURE? YOU REALLY WANT TO DISCUSS SERIES 6, EPISODE 2?

OK. I think that should be enough.

Right. R B - greatest TV villain of all time? I didn't see that coming!

I'm not overly convinced by the Roose/Ramsey scene last night. We know Roose is clever, cold and calculating. I would have thought that he would have predicted Ramsey's reaction to the news of a new brother and taken precautions.

Also, I'm confused about why Davos hasn't asked Mel about how Stannis and Shireen are getting on. He presumably thinks they are still alive, right?

Of course they didn't need to show walda and baby being killed but it's game of thrones! It's fiction. They don't need to show anything that they show but it's part of the show. I don't understand this complaint.

When Mel came to Castle Black alone Davos asked about Shireen in particular and she did a sad head-shake.

He knows that Mel believes them all to be dead. Not the details though.

When Davos finds out that Mel had Shireen burned alive, any gratitude for her having resurrected Jon will be sorely tested.

Thoughts from this week.

I thought the Ramsay stuff was dramatically satisfying though grim. And I could see on Iwan Rheon's face what it meant for him to kill his father.

The John Snow stuff was well executed but because we were so certain it was going to happen it was a bit of an anticlimax in the end. I wanted them to find an imaginative way to do it rather than that Hollywood CPR "that's it, we're giving up.....,,suddenly corpse gives huge intake of breath" which I've seen a hundred times.

The flashback to Lyanna, Ned and Benjen is also a sign of something that will be built up as a big reveal but will be something of an anticlimax in the end. It's inevitable I guess - if you have something that's well plotted and leaves little trails foreshadowing its big twists and reveals and then you have several million highly motivated fans all pooling their ideas then some things will always be cracked in advance.

The Theon chapter from TWOW is of him talking to Stannis so probably (?) not going to happen in the TV show.

So who is it that Ramsay flails alive this time? I wish it was Ramsay himself

Ah thanks Trills. Must pay more attention (rather than trying to read the discussion on the GoT forums at the same time as watching the show!)

I never thought that show portrayed Ramsay as horrifically as he is in the books. Killing Walda and baby goes someway toward rectifying that.

I liked Jon's sudden breaths and his shocked expression. I think the way it was done could have been more imaginitive and dramatic though.

If Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, will this also feel like an anticlimax?

I wonder if we'll ever find out more about Ashara Dayne who was said to be in love with Ned and killed herself after her brother was killed. I think there was a possibility she also had a child.

For those of you who love discussing each episode in obsessive detail, here's a .

They do a two-hour, show-only discussion of each episode, with a bloke who knows lots about the TV programme and a bloke who knows lots about the books.

And then a different two-hour, book-and-show discussion of each episode, with different guests (from Radio Westeros).

I prefer to listen to these as a podcast, from iTunes, but the channel.

I could just check the actor on imdb but I'd rather ask here - is the High Sparrow not originally the maester from Winterfell? Me and DH thought so when we first saw him, but I can't see what plot device it would serve.

Best thread ever!

No N0one, he looks nothing like him and the Maester from Winterfell died!

Could it be Ayra who has "become" Jon????

n0ne no, the HS is played by Jonathan Pryce and Maester Luwin by Donald Sumpter. They do look similar, though.

Of course they didn't need to show walda and baby being killed but it's game of thrones! It's fiction. They don't need to show anything that they show but it's part of the show. I don't understand this complaint.

What grates is that it's a gratuitous scene. It doesn't add to the plot, it doesn't add to anyone's character development, it doesn't explain anything we didn't know before. It shows the cruel and violent death of innocents just for the hell of it because viewers will like it, similarly to all the unnecessary flashing of titties every five seconds. It's bad writing.

The first ever episode of GOT showed a young boy being thrown from a window in an attempt to end his life by a fully grown man!
That was the FIRST EPISODE!!
We're now in S6 people, are we still complaining about what 'needs' to be shown?

It's a bit like real life in that respect Sansa
Not everything happens for a reason, sometimes bad things just happen, and I think that is the point.
Westeros is a world where bad things just happen, just like our world.

Also, had they shown the dogs actually biting into flesh and bloody limbs flying everywhere I'd agree.
But they didn't actually show anything

WeDoNot Bran being pushed out of the window was a key element - it pretty much set everything in motion that followed afterwards. It started a war, if you want. Walda and baby dying a horrible death did nothing. That is the point I'm trying to make. It's a filler scene, put in to gratify people who get off on that sort of thing. I don't mind violence if it actually has a point, but it didn't here.
As for the "that's what happens in life!" Well yes, yes it does. But what I'm trying to criticise is not the (fictional) event but the (real) sloppy writing of a TV series; surely you can distinguish between those two?!

SerJorah Yes! That's exactly what it sounded like (mouse/snake/Gruffalo)...

He was obviously going to kill the baby as he does something similar in the books I think. And I would argue the scene did add something as you know, defenceless new mother and baby, literally no-one's safe from him and he's escalating. Roose was the only one acting as any sort of a check on him and he'll get even more gnarly now he's the boss. Having said that, I couldn't watch it and ran out of the room and made DP call me back in when it was over.

DP was saying one of his GoT channels (two dudes from Isreal) was on about the fact that the whole point of the Boltons' story was to destabilise the North. Now the region is suitably fucked up there's no point in them, so they'll probably kill Ramsey off soon.

I'm going to read the books again. I love the TV show but it seems too thinly spread to really get that feeling. My favourite episode was late in season 5 when it was all about the battle of the Watch. One episode detailing a story. I found last night really slender.

Of course I can distinguish between real life and TV

And of course I can understand what you're saying, but I wholeheartedly disagree.
I think it does advance the plot, because Ramsey's title of 'Lord Bolton' was under threat, and now it isn't. Sounds like an advancement in the plot to me.

You, however, seem to not be able to see my point?

I think the tittie flashing has been pretty tame so far this season hasn't it?

I'm also surprised people are shocked at the Walda & baby scene after Shereen being burned, and the window pushing scene as a pp mentioned.

It's entirely fitting with Ramsay's character. It could have been explained in a bit of dialogue that Walda and her baby had been killed but this is GoT. We saw the slaughter of Joffrey's rivals by the Kingsguard including the killing of the baby in the brothel - kind of. As PP have said, we didn't see anything. The man who killed the baby girl got his comeuppance on screen.

I think it was more believable that Roose would have killed Ramsay as soon as he knew he had a male heir. Perhaps he was going to later and Ramsay got in first. Perhaps he overestimated Ramsay's regard for him - he'd always put Ramsay down and imagined he was loyal, like Ramsay's dogs are to him.

Roose was a more interesting character than Ramsay so it's a shame to see him go. But I suppose it's a fitting death that his son murdered him for survival, seeing as that's what Roose has done to people.