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Game of Thrones S6 ep 2 - DO NOT CLICK ON THIS UNLESS YOU WANT TO SEE VERY SPOILERY DISCUSSION INDEED

480 replies

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 02/05/2016 12:22

THIS THREAD IS FOR DISCUSSING EP 2, INCLUDING SPOILERS. READ NO FURTHER IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS. GOT THAT? SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS

QUITE, QUITE SURE? YOU REALLY WANT TO DISCUSS SERIES 6, EPISODE 2?

OK. I think that should be enough.

Right. R B - greatest TV villain of all time? I didn't see that coming!

OP posts:
EverySongbirdSays · 04/05/2016 16:52

Sorry, start of post got cut off there. Basically that's who 7 Gods are.

WeDoNotSow · 04/05/2016 18:13

The old gods see through the weirwoods trees, that's why they have faces.
I think when the andals? Came to westeros with their seven gods, they cut down most of the weirwoods in the south, so only the northerners have the old Gods (and the wildlings north of the wall)
There is a passage in the book with Osho, where she says something The Gods can't protect them in kings landing because how can they see when they have no eyes? Or something like that. Or maybe that was in the show (I get confused sometimes what's happened where)

EverySongbirdSays · 04/05/2016 18:26

Bran talks to Theon through a tree at some point in the book. Is Bran now a God?

WeDoNotSow · 04/05/2016 18:59

I have no idea how it works.
Is bloodraven a God? I know they say he sees through a thousand eyes and one.
Or maybe the old Gods are the children? They said something about the chosen ones having different coloured eyes didn't they? The green seers, they had moss green or red eyes and they were the ones that connected to the trees (I'm sure it was something like that)

WestleyAndButtockUp · 04/05/2016 19:03

Davos is a bit idiotic. He says all the gods are bollocks - but please raise Jon Snow from the dead.

And he says it to a High Priestess of a God-worshipping religion that he KNOWS has real power - because he saw her give birth to a shadow that went off and killed their enemies.

Even if her religion WASN'T the cause of that, there's no reason why he should think it wasn't.

Trills · 04/05/2016 19:31

Does anyone else think that there may be some conflict between Brienne and Sansa, if Brienne sees Sansa as "little girl I am rescuing", and Sansa is more of the opinion that she is "your liege lady who you have promised to serve"?

I quite like that most people don't really believe in the gods, they just do their rituals when they need to (births, deaths, and marriages) and otherwise get on with their lives. It seems pretty realistic to me.

Similarly I like Davos's practicality. The Red God may or may not be real, but Melidandre can do magic. She might just "know how to do magic", it might be nothing to do with gods at all.

WestleyAndButtockUp · 04/05/2016 21:00

Not really believing in the gods is realistic to today, and (for all I know) to the Greek and roman gods?

But the Reformation teaches us that mediaeval and renaissance people genuinely did believe in the reality of the profound differences between Catholic and Protestant. And that's not what I'm sensing on GOT, with the more pluralistic religions.

QueenOfThorns · 04/05/2016 21:01

I was wondering just WHY Davos would care whether Jon Snow is alive or dead? What's Jon to him? You'd think he would ask for Stannis to be resurrected, if anyone.

Now Tormund (I love him!) is back and they've got out of that room, there's nothing to stop Davos pissing off home and getting on with whatever might be left of his life. In the books, everything he does is out of loyalty to Stannis. Unless something important that I've forgotten happened at the end of season 5 (highly likely), there seems to be a motivation missing here.

SuffolkNWhat · 04/05/2016 21:13

Davis has lost everything, his sons died in the Blackwater, I guess he feels he might as well do something than slunk off and die quietly alone.

QueenOfThorns · 04/05/2016 21:25

But I believe there's a Mrs Davos still, so he does have someone to go back to?

BonerSibary · 04/05/2016 21:34

Davos is saying all his no gods stuff in the context of having seen the thing he believed in crumble. He had an almost religious belief in Stannis, who's now dead (usual caveats apply) so he's disinclined to believe. That said, he might be transferring his allegiance to Jon Snow. He's clearly inclined to hero worship, paired with a desire to see the person he thinks is best for the country in power.

SansaClegane · 04/05/2016 21:47

Yes there is a Mrs Davos (Maryah or something?) and also two younger sons waiting for him at home! Found this a bit weird in the show as Davos is religious, he finds it very hard to turn his back on the Faith if the Seven when Stannis asks him to convert to Rh'llor. So while he doesn't believe in the Lord of Light, it's not like he's an atheist.

Bonnibell · 04/05/2016 22:35

Just caught up with the episode and I thought that Roose's murder was fitting after what happened at the red wedding. He was killed by someone he trusted and so were his wife and baby, like with Rob his wife and unborn child.

EverySongbirdSays · 04/05/2016 22:44

Oooo Bonnibell that fits the feem of poetic justice deaths I hadn't thought of it.

gingercat12 · 04/05/2016 22:49

GRRM sort of hinted many times that the Gods in the books are all fake, but the magic is real. Davos has never been too religious I think, more like superstitious as a seafarer. He probably also found the Red Priestess a bit too intense (like most people would).

In fact, Stannis claimed to have been an atheist in the books since his parents died right in front of their eyes, so it was a complete surprise to me that he burnt his daughter on the show.

Davos has a real sense of duty, and he clearly feels that he owes Stannis and Shireen to protect the realm, and Stannis probably would have wanted Jon to live and rule. (They are both part-Targs.) Also Maryah will perish if they cannot stop the Others.

Sorry if I missed the warging discussion, but warging is to do with having First Man blood. Most families in the North descended from the First Men (other than the Manderlys who are Andals), and in the South the Blackwoods did. Bloodraven's mother and Dany's great-grandmother was a Blackwood (which makes her half-Blackwood in GRRM genetics, as her parents were siblings).

gingercat12 · 04/05/2016 22:51

I found it odd that the Boltons embraced. Roose (in my head canon) would never trust Ramsay. Ramsay killed his older brother and his own first wife as well.

Bonnibell · 04/05/2016 23:01

Ginger was Ramsey killing his older brother in the books? I don't remember it from tv but then I watched the first 3 seasons on maturnity leave when I was very sleep deprived.

Every yes I was thinking it was sort of poetic justice. Also Walders daddy was in on the Red wedding as well and has just lost his daughter and grandchild.

wickedlazy · 04/05/2016 23:33

I quite fancy Tyrian.

wickedlazy · 04/05/2016 23:34

Tyrion* Doh.

SerJorahsSecondChoice · 04/05/2016 23:59

It is out there re who Ian McShane brings back, btw. He did actually make it very clear in an interview, which pissed everyone off an gave rise to his response that 'it's only tits and dragons.' Have also heard that Margaeey will turn devout.

Alisvolatpropiis · 05/05/2016 00:21

I've seen the "tits and dragons" quote but not who it relates to.

Who is it?

EverySongbirdSays · 05/05/2016 00:38

It can only be Lady Stoneheart, right?

I heard they didn't do it earlier so as not to spoil the surprise that it could be done for Jon.

I've just watched an Alt Shift X video on Youtube I massively recommend those for theory and background and getting up to speed on Book vs Show and the Tyrion Targaryen theory. Search for Game Of Thrones explained and look for Alt Shift X as the maker of the video.

They have indicated they think "Ramsey's gift" is Rickon though Sad

I won't hear of it. It would be such a deviation from the book. And really? How would Ramsey know? I doubt even Sansa could identify him now. It could be a ruse. Especially if Osha not with him.

wickedlazy · 05/05/2016 00:46

Because of Shaggy Dog. Only one boy that age has a direwolf. Hope it's not true Sad

EverySongbirdSays · 05/05/2016 00:53

No!!!! Not Shaggydog!!!!

CaptainWarbeck · 05/05/2016 02:57

Back to the warging, I think Melisandre did bring Jon back. Hints like this only being possible before when someone had lost their faith and her previous abilities with the shadow baby.

But maybe this was also only possible because Jon had warged into Ghost just before his death and so his consciousness still existed. I thought that Melisandre didn't see Jon wake up because although her magic had worked, Jon's spirit was in Ghost, who was asleep. When Ghost woke up (after everyone had left the room), I thought that Jon realised warging back was possible, due to the magic, and so he did.

Plus, Ghost is called Ghost. Originally because he was the only white direwolf out of the litter of puppies but perhaps that was foreshadowing for him being a vessel for Jon's actual ghost, in the sense that he'd died but still survived.

Doesn't Maester Aemon say something to Jon before he dies too, along the lines of to be a leader he needs to kill the boy, and be the man instead. I'd need to check it out for exact wording. But maybe this points to Jon being set up to be a great leader ie more than the Lord Commander of the Nights Watch?