Outlander Season 2

[Drywhitethanks]

When is it on? Have googled and says tomorrow (10th) but what time? not that I'm desperate or anything
Thanks

POSSIBLE SPOILERS but I'll try to be as vague as possible!

I don't want to spoil it but it's the scene with GD in Voyager. I re read it last night and it really doesn't sit right with me. I know that we're dealing with 18th century morals and standards but the whole thing left a nasty taste in my mouth. The clamping of the hand over her mouth to shut her up, her clearly saying no and struggling. Why on earth Diana Gabaldon would write a scene like that and expect us to be sympathetic with the other party just boggles the mind.

Aye, that's a bit uncomfortable. A bit "she was asking for it". Again, though, it's quite an old book, so DG might have expected that her readers would accept that GD had" led him on" and that poor Jamie couldn't control himself. It's not very nice.

I love the Jamie of the TV series. The one in the books, not so much although it may have been different if I'd read the books first. There are other things as well, which I won't go into, but I just find myself thinking 'why?! Why would you put your beloved characters through this kind of shit?' DG would appear to have some kind of fetish for unconsenting sex as she resorts to it so much in the books.

They are all so unlucky in the books, it's like they are cursed. Nothing is ever easy and they don't seem to be allowed to be happy. It continues like that through all the books. Every time things seem to be jogging along nicely, some more doom and destruction happens. None of the main characters are immune from it. You get the feeling that DG doesn't actually like them very much. Noone has so much horror in their lives. I wonder if the programme will follow that line if it continues.

Really loving this discussion and the many excellent points made the book vs show; 18th century vs 1945 vs 1990 vs 2016 sensitivities; and SH's knees :)

One of my RL friends who's been pushing me to read the books for years tells me she can't get into the show because Jamie is too sensitive and kind, and she feels it's a betrayal of the original story arc.

lets also not forget however how much of an improvement TV Claire is over book Claire - in the books she's often just annoying and she comes across as shallow and insensitive on many occasions - her inner dialogue is inane! I think CB deserves huge credit for her portrayal, she is managing to make Claire interesting and feisty and intelligent - I can actually believe that someone as hot and extraordinary as Jamie would fall for her heart, body and soul... I don't buy that in the books!

The more I read the books (which I'm not not-enjoying, iyswim, just not loving) the more delighted I am at the quality of the show. The script, direction, and performance are of much much better quality than the source material would warrant - it really doesn't happen that often.

Completely agree aka I'm enjoying the discussion too, just hope it's not too spoilery.

Also agree about Claire, and her internal dialogue. It often goes on for days in the books and then you realise that only a couple of hours are supposed to have passed. I'm loving CB's portrayal of her this season, she much more feisty and sympathetic but get over Frank, already, woman!

I just really hope they don't succumb to plot-pressure - those books are effing dense with plot and I think in season one they successfully weeded out some of the more unnecessary ones (like the whole thing that happens to Claire as she's ejected from wentworth prison, so pointless and it's not about her!!!) in favour of character development.

I think season 2 is not as good in that respect and I wish they'd have the courage to slow the pace down occasionally instead of rushing from plot twist to plot twist...

And yes, by slowing things down I obviously mean more time in the bedroom ;)

Oh and btw I have a highly relevant Poldark point to make wrt to this discussion but it involves a massive spoiler for those who haven't read the books so if you have read all of the Poldark books could you pls dm me. Not that I'm obsessed or anything ;)

I could never u derstand why Jamie worships her either. She is just not worthy of him in the books. He is an extraordinary man, in the books and in the show, and she is just a self absorbed, meddling, self important, whinging pain in the arse.

Her ejection from Wentworth was hilarious. I laughed about that for ages. It was on a par with Nessie! At least S1 managed to get rid of the ridiculous stuff. I'm finding S2 a bit to rushed, tbh, it's not really giving enough depth to some of the plot points. SH's knees are well worth it, though. He is just as impossibly hot as the jamie of the books.

Thats my point exactly. Caitriona Balfe looks and acts like the kind of woman that would suddenly appear in 18th century Scotland and literally bewitch a pack of grunting clansmen! She is magnetic in her beauty, intelligence and deportment, so I totally buy that Jamie - superhuman, extraordinary, and brave - would see in her what everyone else is scared of and also realise that she can show him the way to even more greatness.

She's just a Mary-Sue in the books

She's just a Mary-Sue in the books

That's what I thought and then B came along and blew Claire out of the water on that front.

Going back to your friend not liking Jamie in the series because he's not like the book Jamie, I think that's my problem, but in reverse. I can't match up tv Jamie with some of the stuff that happens in the books. I just can't imagine him doing them.

As to the plot feeling rushed, at least that hopefully gets them back to Scotland sooner rather than later

AKA, aye she is more a match for him in the programme than in the books. She still annoys me, though, just not as much. I think because a lot of the dialogue is word for word and all her guff about Frank and carrying their child just really grinds my gears. Why can't she just appreciate what she has and try to understand what Jamie is going through. We need more of the cave sex pool of healing, I think. It's about time Jamie told her never to mention Frank again!

Not all clansmen were grunting, though. education was universal in Scotland in the 18th century with parishes bei g expected to provide a school, although access to said education was different for boys and girls. In remote places, like areas of the Highlands, it would have been the laird's responsibility to provide a Schoolhouse and schoolmaster, so that, in theory at least, every Scottish child should have been able to read and write. It was motivated a lot by religion, folk were expected to be able to read the Bible for themselves and take responsibility for their own moral and ethical choices. Although, it is true that that attendance was not compulsory and that youngster, particularly girls, didn't attend school for very long. People in Jamie,'s position, or Dougal and Colum, would have been well educated so might their close sidekicks.

I don't think Frank is that much of an arse tbh.

Hiphop, I thought you must mean that and I agree. I just try to ignore it because I loooove Jamie.

So true about the rate at which disasters befall them. I guess the books wouldn't be very exciting if they spent the whole time bimbling around with their hens, but a bit more would be very welcome.

I can agree with all said - if I'd read the book(s) first I don't think I would buy Jamie being so enamoured with Claire, I found her very irritating in the books. Looking forward to reading the Wentworth ejection part.

Its quite interesting about the education, I've just read a bit in the book where J mentions being taught German and Latin, then later French and it reminded me that when I watched the latest episode I was impressed by the rapid changing of languages during conversation for 18th "normal" people and reflecting on how different it is these days, sadly.

I can't be doing with Frank at all. He has one redeeming feature in the books but otherwise.... I think that's probably why I can't take to him on TV or understand Claire's fixation.
Well educated people would have studied Greek and Latin closely and there were strong ties between Scotland and France historically, so people of "worth" would very likely have had French as well. By the 18th century Scotland had a strong university system as well, although it wasn't really available to your average wee Jimmy or Bobby. There was always a lot of pride in Scotland about our universal education and, in the CoS, of its role in the provision of the education.

I feel I ought to apologise about my grunting clansmen remark. It clearly shows what an ignorant a sassenach I am :)

I wouldn't say so, Aka, they may speak numerous languages but still do a fair bit of grunting!

What's the redeeming feature Frank has in the book, lessstressed, I can't remember finding any improvement, unless it's later on?

I think lessstressed may be referring to the fact that Frank is willing to take Claire back and raise a child that isn't his? Happy to be corrected, but I think that's Frank's single redeeming feature.

Although to be perfectly honest, in book 1 & 2, his only crime is that he isn't Jamie

Why was BJR at Versailles?

And can anyone tell me exactly how the fight broke out at the dinner when Mary & Alex (?) were discovered?

From lurking on this thread, I borrowed the first book from the library, signed up to Amazon Prime, and now have a serious Jamie obsession. So thanks a bunch, everyone.

The thing is, I can't bring myself to read or watch past the first book and season because I can't bear Jamie and Claire not to be happy together forever. Why couldn't they just settle down at Lallybrock and feed the chickens? And yes, what is it with Galbadon putting her characters through hideousness?

So I guess this is an AIBU - AIBU to stop at season 1 and book 1 and just live in ignorant bliss? Would I be missing out?

mistressfraser that's exactly what I was hoping for when I got the books! I was hopelessly disappointed though.

YANBU to not want to go any further, but I think you'd be missing out (on SH's lovely knees for starters). And you'd always have this thread to console on with the rest of us.

Hmmmm. Knees, you say.

I've read some plot synopses of the later books and it doesn't sound very...happy. I just need them to be together in love forever and ever. [pathetic]

But knees. And kilts. And manly jaw lines.

I am completely torn.