Happy Valley is back soon!

[ILikeToClean]

Just saw the trailer for a new series of this - can't wait!

I think the reason that they've handled it wrong with Ryan is because he's not adopted so won't have had that support?

He's taken care of my policewoman grandmother - so probably services left her alone than guide her?

Yes pigeon that's very true, I'm wondering whether he had a SW at some point but Catherine sent them packing!

So many families where children are not adopted (or are adopted by a stepparent which is very light touch) need this kind of guidance. Even where children are with both biological parents there can be other family members about whom truth needs to be told e.g. grandparents who abused parents.

poly I think it also goes with being very small/slim. Even when older there's a "child-like" look.

Yes, she looks younger because she has such a girlish frame.

Sorry - didn't see the first series - simply alluding to what has been said to him this series!

drspouse you've delineated possible conversations so acutely it's almost made me cry.

But Latin - if you want "dark" try The Archers! The entire listenership is wandering around utterly traumatized by unfolding events.

Gruach this is the kind of thing adopters go on courses to learn how to do and all sit around in a room saying "well what should we be saying to our children about..."

It's also the kind of thing that some SWs don't actually think about when writing down information about our children's birth families e.g. I've heard about some children's stories that would basically start "TLR had an awful childhood, his mum drank lots of alcohol and never cared for him and she hit him too and that's why he finds it hard to make good choices" which is ALL VERY WELL but does not help Ryan understand that his birth father hurt his mother and is a very dangerous man. It just makes it sound like TLR occasionally bought the wrong kind of food or shouted at Ryan's mum but was trying hard to change. Which leaves children (like Ryan) thinking "well WHY did I have to be adopted/can't I have contact with him" and also thinking (which is of course what TLR and Moaning Myrtle want to make him think) "I could be nice to him and he'd make better choices".

What did TLR do again? Can someone sum it up for me? (The total of his crimes)

My understanding is: before the programme started, he was violent to his mum and was hanging round with, if not actively dealing with, a bad crowd that Ryan's mum was hanging round with. Ryan's mum had a crush on him, he led her on and then raped her.
In the first series he got a mate (two?) to help him kidnap Ann (Nevison's daughter). They kept her drugged in TLR's mum's basement and another house.
Catherine and another police officer rescued her and he attempted to murder both of them (and Ann?) and the other officer died.
I hope I have that right. I can't remember what happened to his mate(s).

I have not read all the posts since last night but my theory is it's Clare's boyfriend who is the murderer ( we are being led to believe this anyway...) though it could be a red herring.

I don't think the man whose mother was supposed to shoot him did it. He may have done 'bad things' but we aren't being told what, so his mum has put 2+2 together and made 6. I think it's fairly unlikely she shot him because she has no proof he did it. If she did shoot him then it's because she wants to protect him from jail, but then she'd have to shoot herself too and I don't think she could with the length of the gun. Though of course he could have turned round, taken it off her and shot her.

That's pretty much my understanding too, drspouse. Series 1 was superb. (spoilers ahead for any that haven't seen it yet). Spineless, bumbling Steve Pemberton hatched a money-making scheme of kidnapping (his boss) Nevison's Ann for ££££s for his dd's school fees, but Ann to be unharmed. Got involved with the real bad boys, and everything went completely out of control. Because of TLR, this escalated into murder of a PO, and the planned murder of Ann, except Catherine found her. TLR then murdered his 2 mates, went on the run, and would have killed Ryan too. I could hardly breathe at the end of the episode when Catherine found Ann in the cellar.

I think it's fairly realistic that Ryan hasn't been told much about his mum/dad - traumatised families can be very tight lipped, as a self protection I guess, but obviously not the best thing for Ryan. I've also been shouting at the TV 'just tell him!! Tell him all about TLR!'

www.whatsontv.co.uk/tv-news/news/happy-valley-writer-sally-wainwright-sarah-lancashire-is-mind-blowing-in-the-finale

just seen this online... No spoilers in the article.

pigeonpoo in addition to drspouse's post, he repeatedly raped Ann whilst she was held captive in series 1.

That's very interesting about the age-appropriate discussions, drspouse. I did wonder if it was possible to say something in those sorts of terms, or if you could at least get guidance on whether to or not.

Lawks, Gruach that doesn't sound good about the Archers. Who'd've thought it? (I only listen very very occasionally eg when painting a room and find it soothing whilst not having a clue who is who or what is going on!)

who was Ann? Was she the person TLR was holding for ransom?

Blimey he did lots more than I could recall

Ryan only knows the bit about him putting Catherine in hospital and trying to kill him on the boat though?

Oh I forgot to put in that TLR held Ryan hostage.

That part makes me rather more surprised that Ryan wants to find and get to know his dad (except for the fact that he knows nothing about either of his parents and it's all being hushed up). Children who have always known their abusive parents usually have some kind of attachment to them and are pulled in both directions with wanting to be with them, but being scared of them, and also in some way wanting to protect them. Children who have not known their abusive parents and meet them when they are being nice usually also want to know more about them and/or make up stories about them being hard done by or really living in a fairy castle etc.

Children who haven't but then they meet them when they are out of control (even if due to mental health etc.) are usually just plain scared of them and don't want to see them again. I've seen descriptions of this with posters on MN where it's another relative (GP or aunt/uncle) who's scary and despite the supposed link/bond the DCs just want to not see them again.

Yes, Ann proved to have a very strong character while she was being held hostage and then became a PCSO.

And yes I think Ryan only knows what happened to him and Catherine.

Ann is the millionaires daughter who was kidnapped as a hostage and raped in first series

Catherine found her and by this series Ann has decided to become a police officer and has some sort of hero syndrome going on with Catherine I think - though you can't blame her

Ann was going to date PO who killed Vicky Fleming but he stood her up and she wants to become a detective

I kind of wish they'd written the books before releasing the series - would've made fab novels

drspouse I am fascinated by your posts, thank you so much for the insight. I just love this series and Sarah Lancashire is amazing. I've liked all of Sally Wainwright's work so far, Scott and Bailey, Last Tango etc

Actually if anything this series has been rather less graphic and more conventional. Every single TV show in history has serial murder of prostitutes - always off-screen - (and I wish they'd stop) but nothing in the last five episodes can compare to the jaw dropping horror of the policewoman's on-screen murder in series one. Or the hideous degradation of the time TLR and his pals were holed up in hiding. Or his unilateral decision to take himself and Ryan to a better world via petrol and flames. So heaven knows what they have saved up for the finale.

If SL is meant to be even more amazing in the finale - I think we're in for some gory big twists

Oh yes Gruach, the first series was shockingly violent. So dark. But superb. If anyone's watching The Night Manager, I wish Tom Hiddleston's eyeballs hadn't been so white in his bruised face. They were very good at giving Sarah Lancashire red eyes when she got beaten up

Next week is going to be off the charts. I'm a bit gutted it seems a very short series, with plot lines packed in so tightly you need to lie in a darkened room every Tuesday night. Could they not have gone for ten episodes and more room for the storylines to breathe? Look at John's wife for instance, chucking him out when she's the one having an affair. We don't know why really, and there won't be room for her in the final. And Nevison, he's hardly shown his face has he. Even neville Longbottom has had limited screen time and he's their main suspect so far. And the Polish woman... Etc...