War and Peace [CAUTION: SPOILERS]

[QuizteamBleakley]

Anyone watching? All British actors appearing here...

Yeah, Count Vasily talks to Anna Scherer in the first pages of the book, basically saying(controversially)- my life would be great if it wasn't for my bloody children, they are the scourge of my existence, sent by God to test me...so see him wandering the streets looking broken was strange. In the book he had another son but I don't remember what happened to him...
And jumping from declarations of love to kissing obviously wouldn't have happened in those times. And the fact none of them have aged or changed at the end round the table, Nicolushka looked 10 years older, the rest looked the same or younger.
But I'm still very pleased it was made. In fact, my DH who once had tried to read War and Peace and having given up after a 100 pages decided that he didn't like Tolstoy or W&P , watched it and admitted his mistake and thinks of giving it another go, maybe seeking out a better translation.

I really enjoyed it. I think despite its limitations, it was beautifully done. I doubt it was faithful - from what you guys say it wasn't - but it worked as I thing on its own.

I thought the Pierre and Natasha kiss was just a bit full on for me. I dunno why, it looked a bit..eww. And I do like screen kisses usually!

It was wonderful seeing Mariya blossom so. I thought she was exceptional.
I did imagine her on Mumsnet, AIBU about having my DH's ex-fiancee live with me!

How did Pierre avoid being shot - and why were the prisoners taken on the march? (Sorry if that's elementary)

I cried and laughed...I wish they had the guts to give it a longer time slot.

Pierre comes across as a great hero to me, a real moral character. I was very moved when his old friend/enemy saw him, and he said 'my old friend'(?) and they hugged.

I wanted to know why Pierre didn't get shot, too!

When the French soldier pulled his intended weapon during the search, he said "he's a pure man" or words to that effect. I wonder whether the knife had something to do with his being a free mason and hence they spared him? I shall continue to read the book to fill in the void!

...but didn't he nick the knife from the French soldier he got drunk with?

I think it was his knife. It was in his dining room.

Ahhh. That would make sense!

I thought the french soldier said, "Assasin!" as he discovered the knife!

I looked away as Pierre was spared at the shootings. My Dh said the French officer saved him?

He did - he was pulled out of the crowd and sent away. I have almost zero facial recognition so I have no idea whether it was the same french officer that he had been drinking with - but then later, that one rode past and ignored him when he waved so I assumed it was somebody different. V confusing. Quite traumatic - having not read the book I had no idea whether it would go all game of thrones and have him shot!

My Dh has zero facial recognition hence my doubt!

I may have to watch that bit again.

It was stunning to me. I have never read it or studied Tolstoy and only have the original Anthony Hopkins version as a distant memory, so have no opinion on the authenticity, but I haven't enjoyed or got lost, in anything as much for ages. In fact I couldn't sleep last night for thinking about it. And was googling the battle of Borodino and Napoleons retreat from Moscow into the small hours

The only thing that jarred for me was Natasha and Pierre's kiss, and that they could have made more of the effect on Pierre of meeting the man in prison with the dog. But other than than that wow, just amazing.

My husband is very good at remembering who's who, and he said it was the officer from his house, hence why he saved him. I don't know why he ignored him later, perhaps he felt he'd done enough fo him?

I have loved this and was entranced by last night's episode. Loved Pierre so much. I am going to read the book now but think this was an amazing bit of television.

Yes I was thinking they could have made the kiss more tender, or shyer rather than them sucking each others faces off just a few seconds after Pierre proclamation of love!

I thought they were only shooting soldiers and Pierre was spared as he wasn't in uniform?

The shootings in Moscow were pretty random and IIRC in the novel we don't really know why Pierre was saved, possibly because he could speak French?

Timeframes
The French were in Moscow for 6 weeks I think, arriving sometime in September, but the Russians had deserted the area and so the crops were rotting in the fields, there weren't enough supplies for the winter so they had to leave. And the city was burning, although we don't know if that was a deliberate Russian tactic, random fires not being controlled because the city infrastructure was no longer there, or the French buring the city in disgust at it being deserted.

But the 6 weeks in Moscow had destroyed the army discipline, the French then tried to carry back their loot, and they took the POW with them. Then they went back the same road they came in (although I think they had tried to go another route and that was the one time that they were engaged in a battle with the Russians after Borodino, which was mised out of the Tv show) so there were no supplies available on the route back. There's a famous image of Napoleon's Russian campaign, he crossed the border with 422,000 and left Russia with 28000. A shocking waste of life. Borodino was the most deadly battle ever, think more people died on the first day than on the first day of the Somme.

I am a bit unclear on exactly what happened to Helene. Why had she parted from Pierre again - I thought they were sort of trying to make a go of it? Was the father of the baby Boris? Was it just gossip that resulted in her public disgrace, or was there something else that happened?

What did she mean by asking Pierre to swear that their marriage had never been consummated - was she trying to get an annulment so that she could marry Boris? Hadn't she dumped Boris at that point?

The father wasn't boris, there was another she was in bed with, talking about writing to Pierre to ask him to let her go, or something along those lines. I'm guessing the obvious pregnant belly at the party, knowing she hadn't seen or been with her husband within the time frame to fall pregnant, was enough to seal her fate.

Re Pierre and Natasha's kiss, I also think it should have been more tender and gentle. Given that Pierre's experience with romance is limited, I would have thought that his kiss with Natasha would have been his first ever kiss (of true love at least, Helene doesn't count) and that he would have been almost too afraid to kiss her.

I did feel sorry for Helene in the end and the rest of the Kuragins.

Helene wanted to marry a 3rd man. I seem to remember something about him being Catholic, so as shecxwas married in the Russian Orthodox church, it didn't count. The rumour was that she was pregnant and Pierre wasn't the father and that would probably have been enough.

Pierre threw her out again after the Natasha thing, I think.

thegiddylimit I remember a million years ago studying European history-the Napoleonic wars, then Bismarck, then Hitler. They all did the same thing.Decided to have a war with Russia, got dragged in and froze and starved to death before retreating. I remember thinking as an 18 year old, well they should have read a book! I suppose if you are a megalomaniac you think you are the one to succeed where others have failed!

Bismarck didn't go to war with Russia, he fought with Russia against France in 1871 which resulted in Germany's unification and later he resisted some of his government's wishes to go on a preemptive war with Russia.
I did wonder during the French retreat though if Hitler ever read W&P, I presume not.

Someone did though didn't they? Was it Keiser Willem? I know other people have tried it...

Yes Hitler should have rather than wasting his prison time writing Men Kampf, but luckily for us all he didn't