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War and Peace [CAUTION: SPOILERS]

471 replies

QuizteamBleakley · 03/01/2016 21:03

Anyone watching? All British actors appearing here...

OP posts:
mudandmayhem01 · 01/02/2016 19:00

Brilliant, the nude men scene wasn't at all gratuitous. It showed the men as comrades, innocently bathing and relaxing together and the comment Andrei made about so much flesh as cannon fodder was a horrible premonition of what was to come. It is unusual to see non sexual male nudity on tv these days though.

carabos · 01/02/2016 21:10

I'm enjoying it, but it's very much Pride and Prejudice on tour. Andrei is Darcy, Pierre is Bingley, the Rostovs are Mr and Mrs Bennett - loving but ineffectual parents - Natasha is a sort of Jane / Lydia hybrid, Sonya a sort of Elizabeth and so on.

Tom Burke is the stand-out presence for me. A totally three dimensional character, driven and motivated. Love him. Paul Dano is good too, but a little one-dimensional. I'm reading the book to find out more.

KittyWindbag · 02/02/2016 09:58

I reckon about ten episodes might have done it, maybe eight. I don't think it would take too much, they have been quite economical and usually I like that, but just a smidge more breathing room to blend things together, make the arcs smoother.

Last episode was magnificent in some ways, so beautifully shot and lit and acted, and yet it was so quick some of it passed me by. I wasn't totally embroiled in the battle as I should have been. I know it must be a bugger to edit, and it's picking holes in something that has mostly been a joy to watch.

Anyone else feel like Nikolai doesn't deserve Marya OR Sonya?

CeeBeeBee · 02/02/2016 10:17

I agree re Nikolai. Both women are too good for him.

MamaMary · 02/02/2016 10:21

I agree Nikolai doesn't deserve Marya or Sonya - but at least he's matured a little, and I think Sonya always knew deep down it wouldn't work out, sadly...

Basing this all on the series as I haven't read the book.

I love James Norton and Paul Dano in this - generally, the male performances have exceeded the females' (with the exception of Marya - she's excellent).

KittyWindbag · 02/02/2016 11:08

Also anyone else think Nikolai looks like a young Simon Pegg??

MorrisZapp · 02/02/2016 11:14

Yes! Simon Pegg! Also Tintin.

KittyWindbag · 02/02/2016 11:38

makes me like him a tad more than I would otherwise, actually.

Yes he has grown up, and is showing his moral fibre. Just feel sorry for poor old Sonya whose 'day in the sun' has been wasted on someone who cannot give her what she wants.

regenerationfez · 02/02/2016 12:25

carabos Id say Natasha was a Lydia and Sonya was more a Charlotte Lucas!

bigbadbarry · 02/02/2016 12:25

We remarked on the Simon Pegg thing on Sunday :)

carabos · 02/02/2016 20:22

Yy Charlotte Lucas, well done regenerationfez.

Obs2016 · 02/02/2016 20:29

Am a Russian student, many years ago. Wrote my dissertation on W&P.
Was worried that this British production would not be up to standard. How wrong I was. I am totally loving it.
Spoke to my best friend today. I met her on my Russian course. She too thinks it is superb, true'ish to he book, the scenery and choice of shots is fantastic.
We talked about many of the characters and how they are all brilliantly cast, perfect to our imagination of the character.
Paul Dano's facial expressions are beyond superb.
Our ONLY criticism is that Pierre should be more portly and rotund!!

IAmAPaleontologist · 02/02/2016 20:48

If Sonya were Charlotte Lucas she'd have stepped in front of Denisov and made him forget all about Natasha and marry her instead when Natasha refused him. Or at least she wouldn't sit there her whole life in love with Nicholas. Charlotte was practical remember, she knew she needed a husband and she was bloody well going to get one. Sonya loves and is faithful to her love no matter what something Natasha could have done with being

Poor Sonya.

I agree that the last episode was a little rushed, but then I suppose they have cut out most of Tolstoy's Pierre's random philosophical ponderings and such. They definitely missed out Nicholas' growing up, was a bit odd how they made his meeting with the Princess such an obvious bolt from the blue moment which is just isn't. I wonder how they will end things compared with the book in terms of describing the relationships.

ThomasRichard · 02/02/2016 21:56

I think one thing the series has missed is the comparison between Pierre's ineffectual attempts to make life better for his serfs and Andrei's quieter but more effective actions. It seems a bit odd as that's a theme running through the book but I suppose not as exciting as the bits they have chosen.

thegiddylimit · 02/02/2016 22:14

ThomasRichard I agree, Pierre is shown more positively here than he is in the book where he's a bit bumbling and never settles to anything and although well meaning doesn't get anything done. And they've signalled his romantic potential far more whereas I think he's a bit of a Colonel Brandon in the book (let's pair everyone up even if it seems unlikely). Andrei does make his serf's life better (which is why poor Maria not getting horses seemed so terrible when she was trying to escape the French) and he's such an interesting intelligent character which we don't really see here.

I think missing out Nikolai's growing up is a big omission for exactly the reasons Iam says. The romance between Nikolai and Maria is my favourite in the book.

I am beginning to think we won't get the epilogue in the TV series, there's such a lot to get through next week I think we'll end with the proposal instead.

LovePGtipsMonkey · 03/02/2016 00:44

am I the only one who finds the French actor as Napoleon v.attractive (and good as an actor)? I've read he's actually a film director.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 03/02/2016 01:13

I agree the men have outshone the women with the exception of Marya. The penny has dropped as to why she looked familiar. I saw her as Miranda in The Tempest at The Globe. Roger Allam was Prospero and Colin Morgan was Ariel. Amazing performances from all three.

KittyWindbag · 03/02/2016 01:28

thegiddylimit I agree re: showing Pierre in a mainly positive light but I wonder if part of it is the physicality of Paul Dano? He's so young-looking and looks like a well-meaning owl. The scenes of him stumbling cluelessly round the battlefield were almost funny, so inept was he.

KittyWindbag · 03/02/2016 01:32

lovePG yes he is a fine director! And his very short scenes have been excellent. His look of matter-of-fact regret as he surveyed the body-strewn field at the end of last episode was enough to tell you everything without words.

Gruach · 03/02/2016 02:28

I'm loving it. Which is astonishing because I never watch costume dramas and found the ten minutes of Downton Abbey I watched intolerable.

I was sceptical. The BBC did W&P on the radio the new year before last over an entire day (or was it two?). It was the Best Thing Ever - I still treasure the memory of the mellow mood I basked in for a good week afterwards.

My problem is that the TV series is just not down and dirty enough. As well as W&P and the full canon of earlier Russuans I read masses of Sholokov as a teen - it's hard for me to understand battle scenes that don't include actual entrails no longer encased within a body. I haven't felt any pain, or even any fear. There's no real sense of threat - that was much better fone in the radio version. And I agree about the lack of fierce, hectoring intensity - it might actually have been improved by having, say, an all Nigerian cast. English people just don't shout or argue with sufficient conviction.

However, that would have meant the loss of Paul Dano who is an utter revelation to me. Never seen him in anything else. Fascinated to learn he's not English - though that explains the ... deliberateness of his enunciation. It's absurd - in a cast full of staggeringly beautiful men he is undoubtably the one I'd carry off to my lair. I could listen to him speak For. Ever.

Anatole is breathtaking. Marya is by far the loveliest woman. Natasha simply doesn't compare to her radio equivalent - but they've made her part rather superficial here.

I'll be sad when it's finished.

Travelledtheworld · 03/02/2016 06:25

Hi Gruach [waves from The Archers thread].
I would also happily help Pierre reorganise his estates.
Smile
Do you know if the R4 dramatisation is available anywhere ?

Gruach · 03/02/2016 07:35

I found this; it's the dedicated website, with some clips from the broadcast.

It appears not to be available in its entirety on iplayer. Possibly it's available to buy and I've forgotten.

CeeBeeBee · 03/02/2016 08:48

Kitty and PGtips, the actor who plays Napoleon directed La Haine in the 90s. He is Matthieu Kasovitz and played Niño Camcompoi in "Amelie".

regenerationfez · 03/02/2016 09:03

thegiddylimit I'll be massively disappointed if vwe don't get the epilogue. It would turn W&P into a 'happily ever after' fairytale. I don't think you get the true story of the characters, especially Natasha without it.

iama yes that's true about Charlotte Lucas. Sonya was a bit too loyal to the family and Nicholas to marry for convenience . But she seems to be that same 'girl in the background', not seen as as talented or beautiful or brave as the other women, but is the most sefless and nicest despite that.

Zorion · 03/02/2016 09:22

The actress who plays Marya was one of the competitors in Andrew Lloyd Webbers "I'd do Anything" where he was looking for someone to be Nancy in Oliver, I think she came 2nd or 3rd!