Any Buffy fans around to discuss some things that have annoyed me on rewatching?

[MrsBertMacklin]

Posting in Chat because this doesn't warrant a permanent thread. I fully admit to overthinking the issues below, I've been binge watching and may have lost perspective.

• Faith was made a slayer when Buffy died the first time. When she dies in Season 5, no mention of a duplicate Slayer, correct?

• The Principal in Season 7 talks to Buffy about how he's looked through her file, why is her response not, 'you creepy fuck, what a breach of privacy, I left school 5 years ago'?

• Neither Buffy or Willow have regular jobs (Willow is never seen in employment). Who pays for Willow's flights to England for rehab, their weapons, various house repairs (don't tell me Buffy could get insurance for accidental damage / civil unrest with her claims history), Dawn's school books etc.?

• When Spike goes to get himself restored to his former self: why exactly does that Demon con him and actually give him his soul? If it was a good demon I could understand it's ultimately setting him on the road to redemption, but it's not.

• Why did Joss Whedon make Angel Irish, when it must have been obvious within 5 syllables that David B's Irish accent was the worst thing in the world?

• Kennedy: I was all for Willow finding someone else after Tara, why on earth did they make that person such an utter knob? Is she meant to have some redeeming features / be perfect for Willow and the actor ballsed it up?

• After Joyce died, why didn't Buffy's dad make a single appearance, surely they could have found some reason / decent plot to make this happen, it's so clanging for me that a parent, no matter how absent, wouldn't even stop by once after his childrens' mother died suddenly.

Agent May in SHIELD is amazing. I couldn't believe it when I saw what age she was.

Another strong female character in recent times is the police woman in Person of Interest. She certainly is not a stereotypical piece of window dressing, but a strong character who never abandons her principles.

My buffy annoyance is why in the last series they keep going on about how buffy's death could trigger one of the potentials to be called when it would be Faith's death. In series 5 when buffy was called no new potential was called as faith was still around

Another strong female character in recent times is the police woman in Person of Interest. She certainly is not a stereotypical piece of window dressing, but a strong character who never abandons her principles.

I adore Carter. (I love the whole show. It's more than ridiculous but utterly fab.) I feel the same about Abbie Mills in Sleepy Hollow.

But this last series of Person of Interest has been as traumatic as anything Whedon could have dreamed up. Amy Acker's presence just increases that feeling that they will wrong foot you at any second...

I am pleased to announce that my 10- year old dd is in bed ill today, and has watched the first 5 episodes of Buffy :)

How fast should I go with it? Apparently up to S4 is Ok for 11 year olds, but after that it gets a bit more adult...

That scene with Katrina in the basement is really disturbing. I found it difficult to watch.

My buffy annoyance is why in the last series they keep going on about how buffy's death could trigger one of the potentials to be called when it would be Faith's death.

That was one of my original questions! It's script bollocks - or to quote Spike, 'boolucks'

...the nasty strip-by-strip skin-removing demon with additional blood drinking tendencies is there I presume to show Willow just how nasty skin removal of any kind is!

I completely missed that. I'm quite good at analysing books, terrible when it comes for foreshadowing, similes etc. in films and TV.

Elvira I also was going to post about Root and Shaw being strong female characters, then I remembered they were a psychopath and sociopath respectively!

I'm not sure where I'm at with the show and don't want to post spoilers but I know why Carter is now in Empire.

Abbie in Sleepy hollow is amazing, afraid of nothing and ridiculously beautiful.

And Buffy keeps referring to herself as the real slayer, when actually it's Faith. I think I only have a problem with that because I prefer Faith to Buffy.

I just watched a few of the S6 episodes I wasn't looking at the Spuffy scenes, oh no. The violence between the pair is astonishing even when they were 'together'.

Yes Buffy is really only the actual slayer in s1.

After that she's like a slayer version of a fairy godmother.

I think the katrina incident mitigates willows murder of warren. He did that premeditively and deliberately unlike Tara.

"Yes Buffy is really only the actual slayer in s1".

I never really thought of it like that!

I personally loved the trio, they were great opposites to say angel and spike because they were just three dudes but look how much destruction they could cause.

I know initially the show was meant to spin the 'high school is hell' metaphor, but I like how as time went on it evolved into a more nuanced thing about the real monsters we encounter every day (even ourselves).

I liked the critique of political power that came with the mayor in s3.

The fact that people had thought he was the son/grandson of a previous mayor but was actually the 'exact same guy' is quite relevant to the state of us/UK politics now where we have all the power in the hands of a few powerful people from generation to generation.

It also hints at government cover ups and conspiracy theories in that the authorities know that sunny d has a dark side but are complicit in keeping it quiet even though the public are being regularly killed!

I think this is first hinted at the end of the s2 episode where spike attacks parent teacher night. Snyder says to the police 'gangs/pcp'.

Theres a fair number on here who think that its a script flaw that Buffy is treated as the slayer after kendra/faith and think this explains why no other slayer is called after Buffys death in S5. Is this based on anything in the show? I think thats not right - Buffy clearly is the slayer and part of the slayer line, hence shes the last guardian of the hellmouth, she gets the scythe whcih is 'for her alone to wield', she goes to see the swahili guys who offer her more power because she is the slayer etc etc. And she can share her power w the potentials. Faith and Buffy are both slayers. If you take the other line then you watch a show called Buffy the Vampire Slayer but its not about the actual slayer for 6 out of 7 seasons!

So the issue is why isnt there anohter slayer whn buffy dies a second time. Here I think it could be because its an inconsistency (its not addressed in the show as far as I know) or its because its a mystical death (thats my own interpretation). This latter ties in with why Willow cant resurrect tara with the same spell -Tara died a natural death, buffy didnt

I also think re the good girl/bad girl stuff - yes there is some of it, esp between Buffy and Faith and sometimes the extent to which they use clothing to try to underline the point is a bit over. But...I think its also the case that faith is used to explore Buffy's dark side and the good girl/bad girl thing being deliberately explored rather than some patriachy/misogyny seeping in unnoticed. So its not so binary or reductive. For instance Buffy goes along with faith for a bit, gets more into slaying is fun 'want, take, have - Im getting it'. But also the whole thing with dracula and the slayer foundation myth is all that the girll has a bit of demon in her (and not just in her men). Sadly visually this dark side is alluded to by the wearing of leather pants (and sometimes pink leather pants) You know when buffy has her leather pants on shes going to do something that is more 'hard' - like kill faith and feed her to angel
.
The best bit of this is S2 episode Innocence Angel going evil after sex is clear horror movie 'dirty girls get punished' but its being explored and subverted and I think really well. Buffy reclaims her power, her agency by kicking him in the nuts and then she gets real respect from her father figure who she fears will be disappointed in her for sluttiness and the final scene is mother and daugther watching something old fashioned and romatic, Buffy dressed in white and Joyce says 'you look the same to me' Its a fantastic exploration of the whole sex = bad girl thing. Total respect for it.

There is no 'final girl' in Buffy - shes difficult, flawed and all of it and she dosnt get killed for it she fights her way through.

I think that after Buffy died in S1 she was no longer the 'active' slayer. That's why another slayer wasn't activated upon her death at the end of S5.

She was recognised by the council and the demon world as 'a' slayer which is why she gets the sythe etc.

I think it should have been called 'Buffy a Vampire Slayer' after S1.

Has JW ever commented on this?

God I just need to off load how great I thnk Innocence is. The way Angel baits and taunts her about it and her 'whole wasnt I good/was I too good' reaction. Thats misogyny and so much of what I remember finding incredibly confusing as a teen - and even now. The women should be attractive but not too attractive or attrctive in the right way and what does that all really mean??!! And how confused and devastated buffy is by his morning after behaviour. But then she takes control and fires a rocket launcher ( seriously you couldnt get anymore phallic!) plus kicks Angel in the balls with the phallic.

But at the same time as this kick ass stuff shes reachable, vulnerable, relatable - scared of dad giles disaapointment, scared her mum would think shes different now. And instead she keeps all that. I find too many female heros go too far in the kick ass direction and lose the humanness, Buffy is continually explicitly about that tension: standing on your own feet, fighting back but remaining related to others, wanting and needing to be reached emotionally, not shutting down and sometimes she doesnt succeed at it either and behaves 'like a monster'

Im sure Buffy is the active slayer after season 1, why do the council test her at 18? - S2 or 3 when they remove her strength

Or more tehre are 2 slayers after kendra is called, rather than active and inactive.

I also think if you say Faith is the main slayer in s7 then why when they have the scythe does she say 'feels like it [the scythe] is mine, I guess that means its yours'. I see that as faith acknowledging that while they are both slayers its Buffy who is The Slayer.

Also on good girl/bad girl - theres Parker. Buffy even comments on it 'oh god Im a slut' for deciding to sleep with him so quickly and Spike of course jumps on that one 'easy trick it the chicks thick enough to buy it' (so theres your misogynistic worldview)
But what we learn from the show is 'no hes a poophead'. He's shallow and manipulative [and why doesnt he want me]. I often think that vis a vis womens relationship troubles, you can see hes no good so why cant you drop him or his rejection of you? why does that still hurt? - an eternal mystery.

I think that's just the dynamic between them. Faith doesn't feel like she deserves to be the lead Slayer, she's used to Buffy taking that role.

Faith is definitely who the line of slayers now travels through, but that doesn't take anything away from Buffy's mojo or her connection with the slayerline iyswim.

I think the inconsistency is the s7 scripting!

Funny - looks like Im in the minority on this here but I had never even thought of it the other way round. But is tehre anything in the show to back it up?

I see that as faith acknowledging that while they are both slayers its Buffy who is The Slayer.

I think that's because Buffy was always the 'proper' slayer. Faith sees herself as a fuck up, she killed a man, sided with a demon, killed more people and went to jail. Buffy has the Scooby gang and I think Faith sees Buffy as the main slayer. I don't think she ever feels like she can live up to Buffy.

Buffy was always 'special' as a slayer though. She had more power. And much like the angel human/demon dynamic, it has a lot to do with her human side - Buffy is willing to do what it takes to do the job. She does the slayage in a way that others can't - Faith goes on gut kill all demons feels alone, and has no interest in the theory of it. Kendra is all theory and protocol but has no 'gut' to deal with nuance. Buffy is a balance between the two. I think there are parallels between Buffy and Echo - 'special' in that they do the jo better than anyone else cohld or coyld even imagine, but not always the 'right' or expected way. That ability is what makes them stand out. So although Buff is no longer the active line it's not like she no longer mattered.