Damian Lewis fans line up for Wolf Hall tonight

[Travelledtheworld]

Wednesday 21st January BBC2 Channel 4

lush costumes.

www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/11358197/Damian-Lewiss-inspiration-for-Wolf-Halls-Henry-VIII-Wills-and-Harry.html

I read years ago that Holbein was rather smitten with Anne of Cleves when painting her and tried to convey how delightful she was in his finished painting.

In the Antonia Fraser book there's an alternative portrait of Anne of Cleves (wearing the same dress, it's definitely her) and it says X Ray analysis of the painting showed a larger nose underneath which was painted over. poor Anne

You can visit one of the houses she lived in once she was pensioned off, it's a national trust place in Lewes. More Manor House than grand palace but still fairly comfortable surroundings for her!

MamaMary, I've found the sketch of Cromwell. It's a rather small and blurry version, unfortunately, but I think it still gets at something that has been lost in the surviving versions of the paintings.

I'm sure there were several moments in her life where Anne praised the Lord for her being born plain. Talk about dodging a bullet (or axe).

That sketch of Cromwell makes him look more natural than the painting. It makes him look grumpier too - almost like Holbein really did trap him behind a table and tell him to sit still!

It does

I think it makes him look hard as nails, too.

I love the way Mantel plays with the idea we know what people are like from paintings, with the line about him looking like a murderer.

HM seems to have taken an awful lot from the Holbein portraits,look at the one of Jane Seymour, she looks pale and boring as Holbein painted her and that's what she seems to have taken as her basis. She's another quite unsympathetic character in Bring up the bodies.

Wow, thanks for posting that, TheCountess. He certainly does look grumpy in that sketch, and look how hard his mouth is. Not a man to be messed with.

There is a review of Bring up the Bodies on Amazon where someone who seems very knowledgeable about Tudor history basically says how appalled she is at Mantel's highly unsympathetic portrayal of Boleyn, and how Mantel basically condones the theory that Boleyn was a slag who slept around with half the court. There are zillions of comments to it; quite an interesting discussion.

Do you have a link to that Amazon review MamaMary? I've just spent abput half an hour looking for it, without success (yes, I am that much of a saddo).

What can I say, fantastic, proper telly that doesn't treat the audience as though they're thick. Wish I could watch the whole lot in one go.

I've also looked at that sketch of Cromwell linked upthread - you can see why he had such a fearsome reputation - much more so than in the painting. He looks like someone you wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of. Or any side of, come to that.....properly scary.

For the people saying that Cromwell in the drama (so far) seems too soft; I think this introduction is more about scene setting - explaining his character?

Ah, I could waffle on about this all night! Loved it.

Found a colour version of that sketch. I think the touch of colour adds a bit of 'warmth' and makes him less frightening?

Interested to hear what others think.

Yes,it's that rather grim mouth...guess smiling or laughing would show a different man.

That colour sketch IS different, you are right flippinada

Well done Flippinada - that's much better.

I don't find the colour makes him less frightening. He still scares me. It's very interesting though - the version I have pinned to my wall is that same colour picture but the contrast is greater, so the hollows on his cheeks look more pronounced, and it results in an even more forbidding effect than that one.

The softness at the beginning of the books versus the awfulness of what he got involved in later is part of the point of the books, I think - we've got very close to him, (fallen in love in some cases), and then he does stuff that we would generally agree is Bad like being involved in fitting up Anne Boleyn.

The colour sketch definitely softens the edges and you can actually imagine him smiling which is something missing from the final painting.

Oh I'll have a look merlincat. Only to make you feel better though you understand.

Ive seen Intimacy merlincat- apparently the sex scenes were 'real'?

I didn't fancy MR at all then I watched the trailer....

I'm desperate to watch but I'm at work

Finally caught up on the Anne Boleyn programme on iplayer. Very interesting to hear different historians and their, often opposing, views on AB.

merlincat you have nothing to apologise for

Idon't that's what I mean - he's just not the avuncular, twinkly eyed sort! The colour makes him look more human, I think.

Really liked Claire Foy's portrayal of Anne Boleyn. Thought it was spot on - she's not meant to be likable (at least that's how I read the books). My mother's assessment was "a hard faced little madam".

Mind you, Katherine of Aragon is portrayed as a rather "hard" character as well - albeit one who is portrayed more sympathetically.