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Telly addicts

Damian Lewis fans line up for Wolf Hall tonight

990 replies

Travelledtheworld · 21/01/2015 11:29

Wednesday 21st January BBC2 Channel 4

lush costumes.

www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/11358197/Damian-Lewiss-inspiration-for-Wolf-Halls-Henry-VIII-Wills-and-Harry.html

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hilbobaggins · 24/01/2015 22:40

It was "sweating sickness", a huge killer in Tudor times. I think Anne Boleyn herself had it. I don't know if we now know what this disease actually was, though.

NotYouNaanBread · 24/01/2015 23:40

I enjoyed it overall, but the jumping around was irritating.

I'm normally pretty hard hearted but I sobbed over the children (as I did when reading the book). It was so hard, especially when I knew it was coming (the peacock wings!).

I loved Jonathan Pryce. He's wonderful.

Behooven · 25/01/2015 00:06

Thanks for the link, sounds dreadful

gleegeek · 25/01/2015 00:07

I didn't enjoy it I'm afraid. It felt too self-conscious and worthy to me. I spent a lot of it trying to work out what I'd seen the actors in previously and where it was filmed. I didn't object to the filming by candlelight, and didn't find it too dark to see what was going on. The children were lovely and I loved the peacock wings! Cromwell is too gentle and scruffy for my liking - want him to be 'darker' and meaner. Hmm not sure I'll bother with the next episode :-(

mammuzzamia · 25/01/2015 01:33

I must be hard of heart because I didn't find the death of his family affecting in the TV prog and I found the peacock wing scene emotionally self conscious and trying too hard.

Not keen on Thomas Cromwell so far. I expect a more hardy character whether he also be affable or not. Early days though.

I hope the olde authentic lighting doesn't continue. I adjusted the set at one point!

squoosh · 25/01/2015 01:39

There's a withered dusty husk where your heart should be Wink

Idontseeanysontarans · 25/01/2015 09:57

Anybody watch the programme on Holbein last night? Really interesting how it puts the style of painting into the context of the political outlook of the time, but the presenter was awful - does he always talk with such a sneer in his voice? Not a big fan of Cromwell is he Grin
I didn't know Holbein died of sweating sickness too.

FrankelandFilly · 25/01/2015 10:48

Idontsee, I said exactly the same to DH, the presenterhad an awful style of speaking. We went to New York last year and visited The Frick Collection, I'd forgotten we'd seen those two Holbein's up close Grin

MamaMary · 25/01/2015 11:13

justcallmedory, ah, that makes sense about the prayer book. In the books he keeps returning to the prayer book doesn't he, when he's thinking about his wife and daughters.

In the book I cried when his family died, but on TV I didn't....Mark Rylance's acting left me strangely unmoved... And it all happened so quickly, we hadn't seen much of the daughters.

MuddhaOfSuburbia · 25/01/2015 11:29

Yes I thought that too Mary

In the book I was in tatters

As for the Frick-imagine More and Cromwell shut ina room together for all eternity. Talk about tactless

marshmallowpies · 25/01/2015 13:04

I've never heard of the Frick Collection - gah, a room full of Holbeins and I've not seen them? Where in NY is it? (No plans to go there any time soon but I can dream...)

squoosh · 25/01/2015 13:50

Yes it's in NY. Beautiful place.

Idontseeanysontarans · 25/01/2015 13:58

Muddha that made me laugh when I saw the pictures, I could well imagine Cromwell and More arguing for ever over the fireplace in NY!

MuddhaOfSuburbia · 25/01/2015 14:37

Haha yes

Bet by now they've moved on from legal debate/dispute over religious doctrine to just going 'your mum'

FrankelandFilly · 25/01/2015 14:54

The Frick Collection is a private collection of artworks. It is housed in the Frick family house in New York which is now a museum. It is beautiful and has works by Holbein, Constable, Gainsborough, Manet, Vermeer, etc as well as gorgeous furniture.

Frick Collection

MamaMary · 25/01/2015 17:24

Watched the Holbein documentary.

Have to say, I found his argument that More was the kinder of the two, while Cromwell was cruel and ruthless, quite convincing. It would appear that that was how Holbein viewed the two of them.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 25/01/2015 17:41

Missed the Holbein doc - is it on iplayer?
I love Holbein. Can spend hours staring at them. The only portrait of the subject of my next YA histfic is a very faded and smudged Holbein sketch and I spend ages looking at it trying to make out the expression. I am convinced there's a hint of a smirk - I think he said something funny when she was sitting for him and she's trying not to laugh.

A Times review of a new biography of Cromwell was accompanied by the Holbein sketch for his painting of Crom - it's REALLY GOOD, far better than the painting, which is a bit plastic-looking IMO. I've never seen it anywhere else - it's not in any of the books of Holbein sketches I know of.

MamaMary · 25/01/2015 18:02

Yes, the documentary is on iplayer - it was a BBC2 episode of the Culture Show.

You may not agree with all of Januczack's conclusions, but it's worth a watch.

I'd like to see that sketch of Cromwell.

MuddhaOfSuburbia · 25/01/2015 18:44

Mary think that's really apparent when you see the portraits together (I haven't been lucky enough to see Frick Collection- this is just in Peter Ackroyd's biog of More)

There's also a lovely preparatory sketch for his painting of the More family, the one that was destroyed- although (of course) stagey there's a definite warmth about it

CeartGoLeor · 25/01/2015 19:58

More certainly looks kind and avuncular in Holbein's portrait, while Cromwell looks like a mean-eyed hired thug who is trying not to strangle his scroll of paper. I kind of like the way Mantel very neatly gets us past the latter, by having Holbein, with whom she has him on very friendly terms, have to trap TC in the corner behind a table to keep him still enough for long enough to paint him, so he's stiff and uncomfortable - and have TC himself horrified at the fact that he looks like 'a murderer'.

Of course, we're so used to seeing endless photos of ourselves, it's interesting to think of how seldom even prosperous Tudors saw themselves, other than in reflections.

The Frick is gorgeous...

Never wildly impressed with Waldemar Janusczack (sp?), but interesting (in terms of thinking how true to life were Holbein's portraits) that Henry married Anne of Cleves on the basis of Holbein's portrait, but was repulsed when he saw her in the flesh, so she was pensioned off without consummation...

MuddhaOfSuburbia · 25/01/2015 20:02

Waldemar Januzczack (sp) is really interesting but his delivery is irritating

interestingly (to me) in the group shot of the Mores, Daddy More looks fucking terrifying

MamaMary · 25/01/2015 20:08

I think Waldemar (give up on spelling his surname!!) was trying to argue that Holbein's genius, skill and creativity was somewhat repressed when he found himself painting portraits to please Henry VIII and other tudors -his images of the massive Henry being unrealistic etc. And that to keep his paltry £30 a year he had to abandon realism in his painting - such as was so striking in e.g. the portrait of his wife and children.

MuddhaOfSuburbia · 25/01/2015 20:43

£30 a year for a genius. And so precarious (not to say dangerous) a position. The poor sod Sad

when WJ said at the end that we wouldn't be half so interested in the Tudors if it wasn't for Holbein's portraits, I thought ah, come on

but on reflection I think he was probably right

FrankelandFilly · 25/01/2015 21:59

Thinking about it, I'm surprised Holbein kept his job (and head!) after Anne of Cleeves turned out to be so different from her portrait, though I've read that some people think she was perfectly attractive but Henry was so impotent by that stage he tried to blame it on her looks.

MIL often says that she considers Anne to be Henry's cleverest wife: she gave Henry what he wanted (a divorce/annulment) and he rewarded her richly for it - she was given the title of The King's Beloved Sister and kept in decent style at Richmond Palace.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 26/01/2015 09:44

That's the version I believe, Frankeland.
Their first meeting went horribly wrong, with her effectively rejecting him (the story about him pitching up in her room in disguise and her going basically 'who is this filthy disgusting old man?' before realising). I think a lot of men in that situation are going to try to save face by turning it round and go 'well I don't fancy her anyway'.

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