What did you think of The Honourable Woman?

[LauraPashley]

I can't decide! MG for me veered between really good and really annoying. Loved her clothes tho. Is she in a relationship with the nanny?

Re OnlyLovers Wire tap recruitment point - who was it who confronted Ephra about the pos. discrimination? (I can't remember. Was it Hugh or Monica or Julia?) Anyway he was cool as while pointing out that that alone would have been a rather tiny trade off for his sister's freedom. So - was he simply deflecting or was he trying hard to give them a clue that might expose the whole farrago?

Just marking my place, trying not to read anything (!) to come back to this later!
I had a bit of a panic last night when I noticed our sky box wasn't recording, but luckily I'd forgotten that it was on at 9 not 10. Honestly, my panic was a bit embarrassing

There MUST be more to the 'secret' than Kassim being Nessa's, I agree, Squidgy, otherwise she wouldn't still be saying the secret was safe. I don't know what it is though!

I don't believe Atika and Nessa had a relationship, but that Nessa wanted one.

Hadn't thought about Monica actually being involved in setting up the wire tap, but it's possible – although yes, surely as a US based operator she'd be pro-Israel ...?

I don't know what I think about the bloke in the Rolls-Royce yet beyond that he/his company are obviously involved in blackmailing Nessa into giving him the contract. He must have something on her (the secret?).

I still don't know about hanged man.
Not sure how dialysis man is involved. If he's playing a game of which he's still in control, it's a VERY long game involving him knowingly getting his son banished.

Zero, it's Hugh. Ephra acts cool but I think he's bluffing. I don't think he wants to give away clues; he is in it up to his neck.

The "secret" became safe when poor beautiful stopped digging into the payment to the kidnap driver's family.

So... Nessa is connected to said payment? And to the kidnap? (I know we've been over this before...)

Not Kasim's existence. Because the Sharia court said she was free to shout it from the rooftops. (And tbh I don't understand why none of the Gaza people who know have told the world the truth about his parentage.) But the reason behind his kidnap is where the secret lies.

I was wondering have the kidnapped Kasim for a kidney? The father of the rapist seems to be on a dialysis machine?

A lot goes over my head too, but it's very good. Planning to rewatch tonight as DS2 woke up twice and needed settled.

Oh heck, I hadn't thought of that, Wips! Not impossible, is it?

Is that the secret, though? If so, how does Nessa feel about the kidney? Was that part of the deal to release her and Atika; a part that no one else, not even Ephra, knows?

Why not just use the son's kidney? Is a younger kidney considered better?

A Palestinian stake in the kidney- now there's a twist

Interesting...

I had previously assumed that the rapist's DF would have died in the intervening time, so was rather surprised to see him looking bravely patient last night.

"Is your secret safe? The secret that you were complicit in the abduction of your child so that his organs could be harvested for Papa?..."

I'm not sure. There's a piece missing. Or...

Could they just have asked for him? No, because how could that have been explained to family Stein - "Atika's son" needed in Gaza?

But Nessa definitely said that if she and the child and Atika were all released they would have "two hearts" at their service....

I am going to get nothing done today.

!

They didn't need to kidnap him. It was only Nessa who needed it to look like a kidnapping so that she was not compromised!

She'd already agreed they could take him. But it couldn't be traced to her.

If beautiful had dug any further he'd probably have found that the money paid to the kidnapper's family came from her.

Interesting point about the kidney.
i actually spent a lot of time in the West bank during my gap year in 1989 during the intifada and remember speaking to palestinians who said that a lot of the one palestinians who were shot were young healthy men and the families did not get their bodies back and there was a rumour that their organs were being harvested....

Thank goodness for this thread! I watch each episode attentively, and the unanswered questions mount up in my head till I can read this and a) get a few potential answers and b) feel relief that I'm not alone in my bemused state. FWIW, my observations at this stage ...

Schlomo strikes me as genuine.
The kidney rationale is very interesting.
The series has already scored high on the Bechdel score, but went off the scale when lovely professor was seen to be wearing his marigolds whilst washing up and then putting out the rubbish!

Keep theorising, MNers; without you I would have retired to a darkened room after the first episode.

Optimist1 what's the bechdel scale?

Perhaps Nessa is much more colder and calculating than her demeanour belies.
Maybe she and Atika have a pact which goes beyond hiding the parentage of Kassim.

When pregnant she said to atika, giving birth is just biology; the company is the most important thing to her.

Could Samir Michal be related to Atika?
What are the point of some of the people in the plot apart from red herrings, eg
Lindsay Duncan character (she seems a quite high powered something given her office)
or ephra's wife

are they just there to give another dimension to their husbands?

I can't believe the kidney as when Nessa had the baby last night she was totally overcome with joy and didn't hand Kassim to Atika until the very moment she had to, unless she's well evil and cold.

Only yes I see that the baby could be used against Nessa but it seems that Nessa has always put the company first and it's achievements, so wouldn't she just hand over the company rather than a possible comprimise, it's as if she knew this day was coming.

But, why is no one really worried about Kassim? Ephra went to pieces when Nessa was kidnapped?

Loving it!

Bechdel_test

'When pregnant she said to atika, giving birth is just biology; the company is the most important thing to her.'

'Could Samir Michal be related to Atika?'

Very interesting points! I thought that conversation between her and Atika about 'biology' must be important, but couldn't/can't grasp how.

Samir Michal and Atika related –it's not impossible, is it? I keep saying this, but I'm convinced Atika is playing some kind of very long game. I don't know though how much of a 'baddy' she is and how much she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time/represents 'ordinary' Palestinians who become radicalised due to the extreme pressures on them.

'What are the point of some of the people in the plot ... Lindsay Duncan character (she seems a quite high powered something given her office)
or ephra's wife'.

Hmmm, dunno. Surely Lindsay D will come back and prove to be significant?

Ephra's wife – I thought at first she might be implicated, but now I think she might just be a 'wronged wife' figure or perhaps an 'honourable woman' ... ?

Thanks for the link to the bechdel test for PP, Only - I had to go out, so haven't been around since I posted.

WRT to the "biology" conversation, I understood Nessa to be conveying "I can't do this" emotions, then she clarified that the giving birth was something she could do (because it's just biology) but the whole business of handing over the baby to Atika and everything that would then follow was going to be very hard for her. But what do I know?!

I personally find Lindsay D irritating to watch, so I'm not too concerned about whether her role as Hugh's wife is significant. And, as the Guardian article said, it's possible that Ephra's wife is the only character we've met in the programme who isn't lying about something.

No probs, Optimist. I realised a bit late that it could be interpreted as stepping on your toes, so I'm glad I didn't.

Yes, that makes sense about the 'biology' exchange.

Spoiler alert:
Hugo Blick said in an interview that his favourite scene was a pregnant woman blasting someone with a shotgun, then her waters breaking.

I was thinking that could be Nessa, but now that she has safely given birth, I guess it could be the very heavily pregnant Mrs Ephra Stein.

Also wonder if Judith Stein is involved in any way?

God this show is driving me nuts, cannot stop analysing it.
Have also started rewatching the last episode and seeing more nuances.

Did any else find this episode supremely irritating? Ephra's arrogant bollocksing on about whether you own a secret or it does you. Monica's studiously offhand delivery of her demands was utterly over egged. Nessa believing that schlomo is implicated in the wiretap when the information came from the same woman who had just admitted to falsely implicating him ins relationship with Hezbollah-? (Though it seems pretty clear that Monica / the US / Israel need schlomo out of the picture). The portrayal of the SIS women is pretty thin I think. Nessa's mad professor was a tiresome stereotype, with his cartoon English. And the storyline with the Israeli academic was slow...

I was disappointed. Though hugh remains a bright spot.

I love this

Aaaah the sweet relief of bring able to read this thread at last

All excellent points. Nessa is such a tricky character, so calculating but hot headed at the same time. Ephra I just want to punch in the balls. What on earth is Rachel doing with him???

I was surprised at her delight in her newborn, but I suppose that's just projecting. I suppose 9mo is a long time to come to love a bump, and not all victims of rape can react in a single way.

Monica I don't trust.

The higher ups in MI5 (can't remember their names) I love! I really enjoyed the close up of the bright orange socks as he got out the car-v eccentric Englishman!

I don't think the kidnap would be for kidney donation but we shall see.

Nah - I've loved it all. The only mis-step was the comedy/ horror stone factory in a previous episode. This week's was great, very satisfying, well balanced between the various characters. My brain was whirring this morning and I'm longing for the next episode already. And even the "funny forriner" computer expert (the live one) has fabulous clothes.

What I did like about it, to quit moaning for a minute, was the confluence of the two storylines in the Israeli academic. The wire tappers bumped him off, thinking noone would care about some prof being mugged and tossed in a dumpster - little did they know he would be on every news channel by the time that they got to him.

I'm just not finding the characterisations compelling.

Erm... wasn't he on the news before they bumped him? The Utrecht evil-doer was watching him on TV as he made the fatal call.

Or have I misunderstood?

Yes he was. But they hadn't put two and two together. The guy who bumped him had the news on - but didn't hear it/ register the name. Supposed to be one of those painful near misses, I thought.

Or at least that was my interpretation!

Ephra's dismissiveness of Israeli academic gave me the impression he knew.