Meet the Mormons

[MiloSimpson]

Is anyone watching this? I'm a little bit to be honest. I've realised that I know v little about the religion.

Looks interesting Tapir. I have stuck it on my Amazon wishlist!

Is that one of the things you read which made you decide to leave? I think it was very brave of you to go, with family pressures and so on.

I read that book on my way out of the the church, but it was Brigham Young's Journal of Discourses that started it all off. He was the second leader of the church, and these books document his thoughts, pronouncements, and teachings - and I was aghast at what I found as it was not what I had been taught about him.

The rest is as I posted it previously - it sounds daft but what has been seen cannot be unseen, and I couldn't stay a member of such a corrupt organization.

I had no idea Joseph Smith was so young. He must have had a very charismatic personality to get people to follow him at that age.

I remember saying to my dh that he was sometimes called bring'em young and then I used to snigger when he was talking to someone and said the wrong name by mistake :)

Stop I may have pointed that out to my son when we were sitting in Sacrament meeting singing a hymn entitled hie to kolob :)

I dont think the church sanctionend the baptisms of Hitler or celebs. It was probably members who decided to baptise these people. Mormons do not believe that all mormons will receive the highest degree of glory. There are as many bad mormons as there are any other religion and they do not believe that those who have lived a good life but who are not mormon will be excluded from celestial glory. They do believe however that everyone will have the change to hear and either accept or reject the Gospel in its fulness.

Mormons believe in the Old Testament and the New Testament in so far as it had been correctly translated. They use the King James version of the Bible. Both of these scriptures are studied extensively in Sunday School and by those preparing to go on a mission. The Church is founded on the teachings of Jesus Christ, every prayer is said in his name. He is the head of the Church.

Oh Mormons love the bible, there's no doubting that - so much so, that joseph smith lifted a lovely big section of Isiah for the book of Mormon, and included it in 2nd Nephi.

As for being translated correctly, Mormons like to point out that the book of Mormon is 'the most perfect book on earth' and that the bible is full of flaws and mistranslations, without realising that the book of Mormon has had over 3,000 changes and amendments itself.

If the church didn't want these people baptised, then they would have discouraged it officially, and from the pulpit. That hasn't happened.

I think what I especially love about the book of Mormon is how it talks about wheat and barley being mainstay crops, and that there are horses, elephants, and domestic cattle, and that the ancient americans fought with steel swords.
We know that this is untrue - all these things being introduced to the Americas long after the times that the book claims to be set in.

Larry

I agree, he must have been very charismatic indeed.

A pox on the spellchecker

Isaiah

In Mormon heaven there are three levels of heaven, the celestial kingdom being the highest, and available only to those who have been righteous, accepted the teachings of Jesus Christ, and made and lived up to all of the required ordinances and covenants during their mortal lives.

The terrestrial kingdom is the second highest level of heaven, and is for those who have lived good lives, but rejected Mormonism or Xianity.

The telestial kingdom is the lowest level of heaven, and is for those who haven't lived good lives, like adulterers, liars, thieves, etc.

Mormon hell, such as it is, is called outer darkness, and is reserved for the "Sons of Perdition" - those who have known the truth of the Mormon gospel, and turned their backs on it, and god, forever.

Wow, so you mean basically Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot etc, because they were unaware of Mormonism in their lifetime, score higher than a good person who has become an atheist, or just rejected Mormonism. How lovely. I truly hope you are not still affected by this crap, Tapir and have successfully expunged it from your brain!

That's exactly it, Nadia.

I've kept the knowledge, but not the 'programming' - what has been seen cannot be unseen.

It's the same with Catholicism. You can never wholly leave it behind.

I am constantly wracked with 'Catholic Guilt' - even though I stopped believing in the Church nearly 40 years ago! I can't bring myself to actually deny God, either, though intellectually I do not believe in him/her. Emotionally, He is there. That is why Jesuits say something like "Give me a child to the age of 7, and I will have him for life." but that does apply to pretty well everything; whatever you're brought up with will be there with you forever.

This is the official version:-

The celestial kingdom will be the residence of those who have been righteous, accepted the teachings of Jesus Christ, and made and lived up to all of the required ordinances and covenants during their mortal lives.[4] It will also be the residence of those individuals that accepted and received the ordinances and covenants in the post-mortal spirit world.[5] All children who die before the age of eight automatically inherit the celestial kingdom.[6] The celestial kingdom will also be the permanent residence of God the Father and Jesus Christ

Joseph Smith taught that the celestial kingdom itself is subdivided into three "heavens or degrees".[10] Only those individuals who are sealed in celestial marriage to a spouse while alive (or by proxy after death following a proxy baptism) will be permitted to enter into the highest degree of celestial kingdom.[11] These individuals will eventually become "exalted"[12] It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave.[13] The nature of the other two degrees within the celestial kingdom have not been described, except to say that the people who go there will become "ministering angels".[14]

Terrestrial kingdom
According to Doctrine and Covenants section 76, those who will inhabit the terrestrial kingdom include those who lived respectably but "were blinded by the craftiness of men" and thus rejected the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ when it was presented to them during their mortal lives.[17] It also includes persons who rejected the "testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it" in the spirit world[18] and those who "are not valiant in the testimony of Jesus" after having received it.[19]

Ultimately, the kingdom of glory (either the celestial or the terrestrial) received by those who accept the testimony of Jesus will be based on God's knowledge of whether they "would have received it with all their hearts" as manifested by their works and the "desire of their hearts".[20]

Telestial Kingdom
According to LDS scripture (Doctrine and Covenants 76), those who will inhabit the telestial kingdom include those "who received not the gospel of Christ, nor the testimony of Jesus."[23] It also includes "liars, and sorcerers, and adulterers, and whoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie."[24] Because of their refusal to accept Jesus as their Savior, these individuals will remain in Spirit prison for 1000 years during the millennial reign of Christ.[25] After the 1000 years, the individuals will be resurrected and receive an immortal physical body and be assigned to the telestial kingdom.[26]

Joseph Smith taught that individuals in the telestial kingdom will be servants of God, but "where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end";[27] however, they will receive the ministration of the Holy Ghost and beings from the terrestrial kingdom.[28] Despite these limitations, in Mormon theology being resident in the telestial kingdom is not an unpleasant experience: "the glory of the telestial ... surpasses all understanding".[29]

Yup, that's what I posted Audrina. Joseph smith also taught that we need to know the 'signs & tokens' to enter heaven - these are the special handshakes and words that Smith borrowed from the Masons, and are only revealed to temple worthy Mormons.

I went through the temple back when they had the original ceremony - the ceremony with the death oaths, and penalties.

Jux I agree to some extent, but I think it's about coming to understand yourself and your own responses to the world, rather than those implanted in you, and deciding what you value, what you can build on, and what can be rooted out.

Tapirbackrider that is probably true of any set of beliefs, that as you become an adult you have to decide for yourself which bits you agree with.

Larry I can see what you mean - I mean going further than that though.

When you leave behind a belief system completely, you have to decide exactly what sort of person you intend to be, without those beliefs informing your every taste - music, humour, clothing, food, behaviour, etc...it really is that invasive and intrusive.

The first step, though, is understanding that what you're involved in isn't healthy, and overly controlling - and that's a different threshold for each person.

Yes, I can see that. I knew someone who left the Exclusive Brethren and it was very hard for her. Her husband bought a television and she thought he had sold out to the devil, because that was what she had been told. It took years for her to come to terms with some aspects of it, particularly that she had an arranged marriage (which didn't survive when they left).
I lost touch with her so don't know if she ever really broke completely free.

Larry I can only hope that she did - I used to work with someone who had closed brethren family, and there was a lot of heartbreak involved for them all.

It's one of the reasons I stay attached to that part of my life and try to help those who are now where I have been.

Apparently my dad's dad was a member of the Plymouth Brethren, though I don't know if he was exclusive or not. I do know that he died in the trenches in 1918, and never even saw my dad. He'd tried to get my grandmother to take an abortifacient so presumanly didn't actually want any children anyway.

It's amazing the things we find out about our families.

Wow, that sounds like a steiner school!