Meet the Mormons

[MiloSimpson]

Is anyone watching this? I'm a little bit to be honest. I've realised that I know v little about the religion.

Water I know. Even more disturbing is that most members these days don't know this stuff. They are not taught these things, and the leadership has tried to deny that a lot of this stuff has been said, or done.

Blacks were originally given the priesthood by joseph smith, but brigham young obviously didn't like this. Not until the US government threatened the churches tax status in the late 1970's, did they give the priesthood back to any male member of colour. The official line is that it was a timely revelation from god.

My stance? It's like most belief systems, harmful if taken in large doses.

It's a shame that the church isn't more honest about this stuff, as a lot of people leaving are doing so because they have been lied to, and you don't expect a representative of god to lie.

Audrina And my response is - simply because you've not experienced it, doesn't mean that it hasn't happened.

Larry There is a large section in the book of Mormon that is word for word the same as a section in the bible. Debate rages about how the book of Mormon (supposedly written between 2200bc - 400ad) contains grammar etc of the mid 1600's...

But everyone knows that the King James Bible was good enough for St Paul

But all the things you mention are freely available on the internet. I have spoken to black members about how they feel about black men not being able to hold the priesthood and why they joined and they didn't seem to have a problem with it and still chose to get baptised. The 1st counsellor on the bishopric in my ward is Nigerian. Most of what you speak of is not your experience. Its like you cant let go if your connection with the church and the only way you can deal with your feelings is to find as much negativity as possible to reinforce and back up how you feel. I have friends who are pretty similar and funnily enough when they were active members they were very focal and full on in standing up for the church and its beliefs and its as if they feel they have been duped and as they felt it was their responsibility to share the blessings of their faith with everyone they now feel it is their duty to tell everyone about how awful the church really is. Its such a common reaction from ex members i sometimes wonder if they take any responsibility for their membership in the Church and if its a way for them to feel they made the right decision in leaving.

My experiences are posted upthread, along with all the information I found when I started looking - and I was looking for material for lessons. I find it laughable that you are trying to tell me what my experience with the church is, but not suprising - it is an attempt to minimise anything I may say, and something a lot of Mormons do.

Yes all this information is freely available now, but we both know the churches stance on searching 'anti' Mormon information, don't we? It is strongly discouraged by the leadership over the pulpit.

I find, when talking to members, that they can't get over the fact that former Mormons are all apparently bitter, negative, attacking, offended, angry - rather than considering that they left for very good reasons indeed.

I'll repeat what I wrote in an earlier post - If I get ripped off, maybe buying a car, or in a shop, I will tell people about it, I will complain, and I am right in doing so. Nobody likes to be cheated or lied to, and it's human nature to want to warn others against doing the same thing. It's the same with former Mormons.

But i am not an active Mormon so i have no loyalty or interest in defending the church. I have not been to church in 8 months i don't see myself returning. I just don't have any of the anger and bad feeling towards it that you have. I do understand what you mean about searching for teaching material though. I was preparing a lesson for relief society and it was in relation to joseph smith and his love for Emma. I had read a few books on their relationship and in particular her feelings on polygamy and his practice on it. I was thinking to myself that i couldn't stand up and teach a lesson on his love for her when i knew how hurt and hard she found it when he married other women. I ended up ringing the bishops wife who grew up un Utah and asking her what i should do. I was surprised that she said she didn't really know alot or think alot about that period of time. I gave the lesson in the end and ordered 2 books on polygamy afterwards to try and understand that part of the Church history better

Again the accusations of anger?

At no point in this thread have I said that I am angry; I'm here sharing my experiences of the church, and knowledge gained from seeking the truth. I think you are reading things into my posts that you want to see there.

I find it odd that an inactive Mormon who claims no loyalty to this church is so set on defending what they state they do not want to return to, and cannot understand that other people's experiences of this church will not be the same as theirs.

Audrina - just because you have no negative feelings towards the church, or bad experiences whilst a church member, doesn't mean that no other ex member will have had bad experiences or have negative feelings.

I see honesty and a sense of balance and fairness shining from Tapir's posts.

It's Monday. Shouldn't Simon be back now?

Cult Watch have a lot of interesting things to say.

With regard to people leaving the church feeling bitter and angry there was a Christian cult near us. I know the members didn't see it as a cult but when the leader (it was a reasonable size organisation with quite a few churches in different areas) had an adulterous relationship with a woman a lot younger than himself, the whole thing unravelled.
Some managed to stay Christians and regrouped and started smaller churches of their own, some lost their faith completely. It was about 20 years ago and yet still some people are trying to come to terms with what happened. Some have returned to faith comparatively recently, some have joined our church and see with hindsight that they had too much faith in the leader and not in God.
People will have individual reactions to something like this. Some people still do not feel they can say anything against the church, even though it broke their hearts to see it end the way it did.
I have found this a really interesting thread all round. Thank you.

I watched it last night on iplayer but still need to watch last 5 minutes.

I wonder why he was given a 'posting' in Leeds - my impression from reading mormon blogs is that you often get posted to the other side of the world - if you aren't going to see your family for 2 years I think there are more interesting places for an English person to visit than Leeds.

Given that a prominent mormon was running for president I want to see a documentary about mormons in the States. There are very few mormons in Britain so it seems very cultish over here. However, I want to know more about the experience of living in and alongside a large mormon community where it is more or less mainstream. I suspect it might be difficult to organise that documentary though...

This thread is a bit like the beginnings of the old Steiner threads - starts off vaguely reasonable and then more and more adherents come on becoming more and more rabid until there is simply no point in going on.

So far the adherents are behaving OK, but am I the only one who is just waiting.....?

I wondered the same merrymouse I commented on it to my dh. I would have thought it was the norm for missionaires to be called somewhere away from their home environment. I know alot of Irish Missionaries go to the UK but have only heard of one Irish Missionary serving his mission in Ireland and that was because he had problems with getting a visa so if he left Ireland he might not have been able to get back in. His family were not of Irish origin. You do not know unitl you receive your letter where you are going to be called to. My sons friend has just been called to Boston USA she is looking forward to it.

TBR I am not critiscisng you or defending the church I am genuiniely interested in why so many people who leave seem to feel the same way about the Church. I know I dont have any negative feelings towards the church because I always struggled with the concept of God and Jesus so no matter how hard I tried or what I did I could not internalise those concepts. For me it was more about the principles that were being taught and how they helped me to be a better person and so I am grateful for that. Is it something to do with having full belief in something and following it blindly and then finding out that it is not all it appeared to be? Is it because it had become so much part of who you are and what you stand for that it is hard to let go of what you have been taught and believed for years that you need to prove that you are right and the Church is not what it says it is? Maybe its different when you are brought up in the Church and have been fed its doctrine for your whole life. It was different for me I was 30 when I got baptised and had been brought up by non practicing catholic mother and athiest father so I probably didnt internalise much of what was being taught.

Also, there seem to be all these successful Mormon musicians - Brandon Flowers, James Valentine from Maroon 5, Imagine Dragons.

For all I know the mormons may be very cultish (although again I think the only thing that makes them seem more whacky than orthodox jews is a few thousand years), but it seems to me that there are rather too many of them to write them off as a cult.

However, I doubt they would be able to get Mrs Cool Mormon Blogger with 5 children and a cousin in an international rock band to talk to a documentary maker outside the control of the church. Pity.

Don't forget Donny and his family :) i think there was probably a big surge in membership when puppy love was released.

No Jux you're not, I'm am pleasantly surprised so far though.

Audrina The Mormon church, by its very behaviour, shows that it's not all it claims to be. All anyone need do is google - which is why there are less converts these days. All I'm doing is passing on the information, and sharing my experience.

With regards to former members appearing to all feel the same about mo'ism, doesn't that tell you something about the church itself?

If all (for example) Citroen Xsara owners dumped their cars, took to reporting how bad the vehicle was publicly to friends, and on online discussions, were blunt and open about the faults with it, wouldn't you think that there was something wrong with the car, rather than with all those people?

There are good things about the mormon church, but they are the same things that you find in any church.

Its stated publicly by a number of sources that mormonism is the fasted growing religion in the western world. I dont think numbers are declining at all.

MysweetAudrina - that's really interesting re fastest-growing - I've heard the same about Islam.
Please can you link to the sources?

I did say western world. I think Islam may be more centered around the East/middle East??

CBN.com - Mormonism is the fastest growing faith group in American history according to "U.S. News & World Report," which reports that if present trends continue there could be 265 million members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS) worldwide by 2080.

Mormons have launched a major expansion program to keep up with growth, opening 32 temples across the country this year. There are now 100 temples internationally, serving 11 million Mormons.

One reason for the LDS increase is that its message "strikes a spiritual resonance in people," Neal Maxwell, one of the church's elders, tells the newsweekly. Another, the magazine notes, is its aggressive missionary effort. Last year the church sent out almost 60,000 missionaries to 120 countries, where they won 306,000 converts.

LDS teaching emphasizes the church's commitment to conservative and family values, and downplays its past beliefs in polygamy and racism. Critics maintain while Mormons may use the same vocabulary as mainstream Christians that "they frequently attach radically different meaning to the terms," says the magazine.

usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/story/2012-05-02/religion-census-mromon/54701198/1

The records of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints show membership growth every decade since its beginning in the 1830s[55] and that it is among the top ten largest Christian denominations today.[56]

drtimwhite.com/mormonism-the-worlds-fastest-growing-religion/

Obviously I don't know for sure but I did note that at the start of the documentary on C4 that they stated that it was one of the worlds fastest growing religions.

I've just heard that some of the people in the program have complained to Ofcom about the show. They are not impressed with the show at all.

MysweetAudrina - those links are about the fastest growing religion in the USA. And the original source material is Mormon press releases, mormon census etc. I think that is just PR...

Actually - would those numbers include the baptised dead?