finding mum and dad.....

[crikeybill]

On channel 4. Holy Christ I'm sobbing. I've tried turning it over but I have to know if someone adopts them....

I'm in my late forties and I really wanted those boys. I was in tears that they were overlooked time and time again. Those were great kids, very normal thanks to their foster family. Please someone tell me they have been chosen?

melika no, they haven't found an adoptive family. If someone doesn;t come forward after this, then they won't be adopted

However the boys presented on TV, they probably do have certain issues related to their experiences and history. One of the biggest things that makes older children hard to place are the emotional needs older children often have, not their age alone. The right family (a good match!) will be one who are completely comfortable with everything the paperwork says and the boys are. I truly hope they all find a family

I watched this programme in tears. Felt sorry for everyone. Naively thought "couldn't the foster family keep the boys, they have such a wonderful bond" Know this is a simplistic view and easy for me the outsider to think.

I currently work as Health Visitor and have seen many children removed from their family homes, it's never black and white and doesn't always end positively for the child once removed from home.

I would love to adopt but with 2 children already and one on the way and living in small home know there is no way I could.
I'm trying to register as childminder just now and going to be available for respite if I can.

Not sure if I thought these "parties" were good or not, just found it all so sad

I wish I could give them all a home. My heart especially broke when the foster Dad was sitting in the car between the boys trying not to cry and when a little one was asked who he wants to take with him to his new family and he replied his foster mum

I sobbed when Scott was asked 'who was Tracy?' and he said 'my sister'. The idea of losing your parents (even in dreadful circumstances) and then your sister is so heartbreaking.

Maybe the care system can't meet the needs of the hard to place children and we should follow the systems in Germany. They have children's houses with permanent house parents and some children thrive in that setting. Especially if they have already experienced loss and this means siblings can stay together and some children don't want to just slot into another family. They do better in these situations as they don't risk not meeting someone else's expectations of them.

Some children because of their needs do better in care homes or therapeutic residential homes etc. Children who are very loyal to their birth family, or children who cannot attach to others or children with extremely difficult behaviour who need an insitutional setting. However adoption will meet the needs of some children better (like my DD's for instance). But it can be difficult to work out which is better sometimes for an individual child. Sometime it's obvious

But natural parents also can go through mental breakdown, depression, secondary post traumatic stress, fight to be the parent that child needs and all the others you mention, yet they don't give the child back and try again with another.

So, the adoptive parent learns they're just not up to it because their child is too troublesome or too damaged, and grade them in for a new model they might cope better with?

I'm sorry but that's just not true, and it's very offensive

There are so many children in care who are there because their birth parents cannot cope with them

And as for 'try again with another' that is NOT how it works. Parents who go through devastating disruptions usually never adopt again, and grieve for the rest of their lives. They feel terrible guilt and pain. It's not their fault.

I feel like you don't understand what we mean by having needs that can't be coped with. I'm not talking about talking back, or a bit of hitting, or ADHD.

I can't believe anyone could not have only the utmost empathy for parents who adopt a child who is incredibly violent, or has deep struggles with say sexualised behaviour or trying to sexually abuse other children, or harms their siblings to the point where the siblings beg the parents to send the abusive child away because they feel so unsafe. A child with RAD, who is unable to love, and has deeply troubling very significant behavioural and emotional problems. It actually beggars belief

M1SSUNDERSTOOD that sounds interesting and I'd thought something similar would be a better system for sibling groups as I was watching this.

Yes thanks ladies for all the pretend weeping and wailing judging the couple and the empty oh I would love to take those boys home comments and then

Doing sweet FA easy to be an arm chair pundit

When you don't know how the process works

And have no intention of throwing hat in the ring ffs

Personally, that's why I've chosen the oh so easy adoption route rather than pop out a couple of my own. (I'm not infertile).... So I can simply give them back if it all gets a little too bothersome.

It's eazy innit?

FFS I don't think I've ever read anything so crass. And on this place that's saying something.

[sceptical]

You judgemental, nasty piece of work.

Or even.

Instead of throwing out the insults which I totally understand, better to educate some of the misinformed.

I for one have always considered fostering, and today off the back of that programme have started the ball rolling.

Current housing constraints might limit it, but hopefully in time I can change that.

I think having to give up a child after them coming to you for adoption is probably one of life's most crushing events for all concerned.

Also the couple on the TV looked totally overwhelmed.

Finally, I can think of almost no worse an event than a kids party to see kids at their "best" ha! My ds turns into a wild sweaty boy beast!

Video clips of kids at their foster homes would be better, say a video of 5 minutes taken over the course of a couple of months then edited together.....expensive though.

funnyossity it was something I read about and it also preserves the links with birth parents, extended family etc in the future.

But natural parents also can go through mental breakdown, depression, secondary post traumatic stress, fight to be the parent that child needs and all the others you mention, yet they don't give the child back and try again with another.

They do actually and in massively more numbers than us unnatural parents do.

Heartbreaking. The boys may get home after the broadcast. But I could barely watch at times.

Interesting that a child can be irreparably damaged by birth parents actions and the system they than come into (however well intentioned) but the people who get the blame are the ones holding the grenade when the bomb goes off - who have actually done nothing except their very best.

better to educate some of the misinformed

I've tried and tried and tried - and still I hear adoptive parents blamed for adoptions breaking when they caused no damage and have often called for help repeatedly until it was just too late.

piglet I didn't think your post was sarcastic and I didn't respond in that way. Your not understanding why adoptive parents get the choice of which additional need they might cope with is common.

And the irony of it is that sometimes its irrelevant:

One of the additional risks I said I would have the most difficulty with was extreme prematurity because of the enormous uncertainty. Who was I matched with? A child born at 26 weeks under a kilo with significant delays and a high risk of cerebral palsy. And I spent the next 3 years with my fingers crossed and my heart in my mouth just like every other parent of every other premmie until he was four and for the first time ticked all the developmental milestones. And if he hadn't, it wouldn't have mattered to me because by then he was my child and I loved him.

But before he was mine in those first few weeks and months, the fact he was cute was totally irrelevant. He was a strange child who screamed every time he looked at me and woudn't make eye contact. He lost his self soothing mechanisms more quickly than he learned how to be comforted making for a few grim period for both of us. You know those irritating children in restaurants that cry all the time - well I lived with one and everyone thought he was my son. And he was only 1 so he settled and bonded fairly quickly really.

With an older child - they know you aren't their parent, they probably have memories of their parents and they may even have memories of what bad things parents do to you, they probably also know that you will leave as everyone does at some point. Add to that you feel slightly panicky and suffocated and wonder if you've made the worst decision of your life whilst trying to not screw up this poor child that some ill-judged social worker has decided you are competent to parent.

Its a bit like going out with quite a nice chap for a week who is a bit needy and deciding to move in together after knowing each other a week and spending virtually every waking moment of the day together.

It's hard on everyone. But mostly we get through it fine with a bit of help and support and not being told how crap we are if we wobble a bit

On the splitting siblings thing - in my experience it isn;t that common except for the safety of a child or if the sibling group is very large.

I have seen a sibling adoption disrupt with one sibling and not the other which was heartbreaking for the sibling who stays in the home but not so much for the child who went back into care because of his attachment issues which were to such a degree that I don't think he was ever as attached to his sister as she was to him. It disrupted partly due to the safety of the younger child beign compromised by the older.

It has just been pointed out to me that I spend half my time on adoption threads on Mumsnet denying that I am "marvelous" or "wonderful" or "brave" just because I adopted... and here I am trying to assert my marvelous-ness.

You are right goldfacegreen. We aren't any better than any other parent, we may be as you assert be in fact worse as it seems we wimp out at the least opportunity. However I'm the only parent DS has right now so he'll have to put up with me.

I watched the programme and I thought it was wonderful and moving.

I didn't think any came through as if they were cherry picking and simply because there was a small child (boy and girl) at the party does not automatically = they were not hard to place. Some issues can be present even in cute looking small children.

The couple who dressed up I felt came across great they did not just jump at it they considered what they were able to give and what type of child they would be the best parents to. I think when they do find a match they will be wonderful parents.

I did feel very moved by the boys not having been picked yet but sadly I am also realistic enough to know that this happens. I hope for the boys that they do find a wonderful forever family.

For dh and I it had the effect we had the discussion about fostering and it is something we wish to look into. However I know right now it is not possible as we do not have the additional space. However in 5 years time when mine begin to move out then yes we shall look at it again.

I have friends who have adopted and I do not think it is a easy way to do it nor do I think it is a cherry pick when they after soul searching decide to turn down a child. I have a friend who had to take the extreme step of saying unless we get help NOW this adoption will need to distrupt she had got that far out due to lack of help with additional needs of her oldest 2 boys (who were 3 and 4 when they came to her) they had many issues that people were not aware of at time of adoption Thankfully her cry for help was heard and they got some good solid support put in place and now 5 years on the last email from her told me of how wonderful her oldest son was doing pulling in great grades and taking responsibility in a job he had found.. it made me smile so big hearing how proud she was of her son and I know the feeling well as I feel the same thing for my dd who I have been lucky enough to have given birth to.

Adoption is not a easy way I hope that programmes like this will help to get understanding of that.. I freely admit to lurking on the adoptive board simply because I love hearing of the experiences and I know it helps me as a mother to my children as it makes me stop and think hang on a moment and allows me to notice my children in ways I likely would miss because they have always been there..