Benefits street

[viagrafalls]

Anyone watching ?

What is sad is that the people on this thread who are angry about the benefits street people are imagining what they themselves would do if they were ever unfortunate enough to be in their shoes.

As posted several times before, not everyone has the same level or even access to education & technology, let alone helpful networks, positive peer pressure, general job and people skills, and a dozen more barriers besides.

Hence all their difficulties, anger, apathy, and bravado.

Makes sense Scarlettsmummy. But I feel uncomfortable explaining violence away. Who knows, he could have been violent with his partner or children. I just felt relieved when he was imprisoned as he was clearly an assault waiting to happen.

I dunno. So many people have utterly shit starts in life, but only some become a threat to others. There must be more to it when people turn against the world like that.

On 24 hours in a and e, there was a lady featured who had had ten children at a young age and then put them all in a care home. She had clearly led a very hard life, and her daughter's first memory was of crying as her mum walked away from her aged 3 in Barnardos.

But mother and daughter had reconciled later in life and though there were clearly issues, both were very self aware and they were loving and supportive of each other.

So a shit start in life doesn't need to result in a person becoming hardened against the world. I'm sure many of us will have older relatives who have seen some scary stuff in their lives, but who remain productive and responsible members of society.

I am so much better than you because i have empathy and understanding for these poor unfortunate souls...

Yes, but like Peking says below, not everyone has the same ability to come or natural resilience. I would guess that that guy HAS been violent to many people, hence the reason his relationship has broken down. There obviously is no excuse for his behaviour but there is probably an explanation for it. The people on this programme will no doubt have problems their whole lives and will need continued help and support to get on.

Hickory- I think it is actually YOU that thinks you are better than others hence your sneering attitude about something you evidently know little about.

I AM better than theives and scammers.

Yes, well that is good for you. I certainly was brought up not to judge anyone until I had walked a mile in their shoes. I condemn their behaviour however I believe absolutely everyone has worth and any of us can make bad decisions.

Meh. Good for you.

Come back, George Orwell. Your country needs you!

Channel 4 guy now on newsnight tryng to justify it, alongside owen jones and some other chap..

I haven't read all the thread but it seems to be divided between the judgemental people who condemn the people in the documentary and those who are able to see that these people are disadvantaged, probably had very poor parenting and ended up unable to make a decent lives for themselves and their children. I belong firmly in the latter camp.

I have worked with people like the ones we saw for some 30 years as a LA social worker and have been able to see what lies behind the people like those featured in the documentary. These are people who were born into dysfunctional families (for want of a better term) families who live on the margins of society, lives in chaos and living "hand to mouth" - no hope of anything getter better, no support from parents (as they lived in the same way) no pride in themselves or their homes, grinding poverty and prejudice heaped upon them by "respectable" members of society.

So they live out their lives in a similar way (though worse now since this coalition has made all sorts of cuts to the benefit system) and appear to be hard-nosed and maybe they are - maybe that's how you cope with being ostracised from society. I would say (before some reactionary poster comes on and says "well we were poor etc but I didn't turn out like that" and it is true that many do manage to make better lives for themselves but I believe these are sadly in the minority.

And how do the likes of people like hickorychicken think those little children we saw on the programme will turn out - well there's no prizes for guessing that many of them will go on to create their own dysfunctional families. I think those of us who had the good fortune to be born into families where we were loved and cared for in a happy environment with enough money to make for a good family life should thank our lucky starts instead of looking down on those less fortunate. BUT I am not going to waste time arguing my point with those who just want to condemn as I've found over many years that it's a waste of time.

I read in the Guardian that there have been thousands of complaints about the programme and pressure is being put on Channel 4 to pull the remaining programmes from going out. Apparently the programme makers told the residents the documentary was about "community spirit" and then of course the editors got to work on the weeks of filming to ensure that there were sufficient shots of a few cans of Special Brew, a corner of a plasma TV and residents smoking fags, and the stuff about drugs and crime. Pure propaganda to pander to the DM readers who are probably the judgemental condemning posters on this thread.

I'm really disappointed in Channel 4 if the rumours are true about the heavily editing and lying to the residents about the purpose of the programme.

A community spirit programme would have actually been interesting, more original and in keeping with the original ethos of Channel 4.

The first episode of Benefits Street just seemed to pander to DM and Government propaganda.

Way more disappointing and concerning than when Big Brother changed from an interesting psychological experiment in the early series to car-crash reality TV. But it is following the same lines.

No need to single me out Nina, im not the only one with these views.
I wonder if all these people with mass empathy would feel the same if they had to live among it.
There are some people who get many chances and dont use them, why should we feel sorry for them?
And as for lack of education etc, they are educated enough to find ways to scam the system.

Hickory- of course I wouldn't want to live there! But I am educated enough to know that there are reasons why they have ended up living this and cutting benefits is not going to magically change this. And to say that they know how to scam so they can't be poorly educated is ludicrous. I think many people would be truly shocked at the levels of literacy a significant percentage of the population actually have.

Why did one of the residents steal 13k from her job? Because she was greedy and thought she could get away with it? Thats the reason shes jobless. So not societys fault, hers.
Why is another family living on £30 a week? Because they commited benefit fraud?
Some (and again, not ALL) of their current situations are caused by their own greed.
Cutting benefits, i agree, is not going to change anything for this street, they will just struggle on less because its not going to change their mentality.

Being illiterate will rule you out of a lot of jobs but I know 2 people who were and yet managed to get themselves into work. So illiteracy is not a total barrier.

I really dislike this patronsising attitude on here where excuses are made for what is deidelness, and crimminality. If this attitude is indicative of how social services deal with this people then no wonder they are left to get on their own. They seem to have no aspirations beyond the next can of drink and no one seems to offering them an alternative. Goodness how much it costs the legal system to chase around after the shoplifter with his 80 convictions and the spare bedroom drug farmer. Surely this money could be better directed.

We were shown how help was provided to people on benefits when C4 showed the 1948 Social Security program last year when idelness was not tolerated and the DWP were very proactive in getteing people into gainful employement. All they have these days is a box-ticking call centre. But people on here objected to the 1948 style as being draconian. But it seems that harsh rules and penalties pay results with people who are unwilling/unable to find their own route back into employment.

The TV series 'Shameless' really picked a good title for itself. When people lived in small communities it was the disapproval of their community members that kept them in check - to avoid bringing shmae on themselves and theur families. You only have to look at the records of the Kirk Sessions in Scotland to see how much 'control' their own community exercised over these people. It wasn't always straight to 'the workhouse' - in many cases the parish was actually quite generous and compassionate to those who found themselves in difficulties and were striving to return to a better life.

Even back in the 1960s I can remember my neighbour's shame at being reported in the local newspapaer as having been prosecuted for not having bought a TV licence.

Nowadays there is no 'shame' because populations are so transient and the money arrives from a central source without much questioning, without the recipient having to demonstrate any willingness to improve their situations and without any meaningful help available to help them do so. They don'y care what happens to them, so they stew on benefits.

I am not suggesting a return to the Kirk, parish or 1948 systems - don't think I am.

But a whole more procative approach needs to be taken with people like this to help them recognise and access a better way of life. And that does not include using social services with their ready excuses, patronising attitudes, low expectations and poverty of opportunities to offer benefits to these people. It would be expensive but in the long round it has to be cheaper than all the hidden costs we paying now as well as the upfront benefits.

Even John Bird, who launched the Big Issue, wrote earlier this week that the benefits system was broken.

OK wet august what exactly would the nature of this "proactive approach" that needs to be taken with people like this, to help them recognise and access a better way of life? I would be interested in any ideas that you could put forward.

You seem to know what Social Services should not be doing, so what should they be doing? You say it would be expensive but cheaper in the long run - but what is this it you speak of.

Successive governments have all thought they have found ways of breaking into this cycle of deprivation and social services and other agencies can only "paper over the cracks" - maybe helping them to get a crisis loan for a washing machine, or cooker, paying for play group fees for the toddlers to get some time away from the chaos of their own home, and of course monitoring the families to ensure that children are removed from families where they are being abused or neglected.

SO come on - tell us what you would do and spell out what you mean by a proactive approach

Expecting this thread to explode tonight

Why are you watching it hc if you are so disgusted by the participants. Is it to strengthen your prejudice against people who are living on the margins of society, and are the most deprived and disadvantaged people in our society. Does in make you feel better about yourself I wonder?

It does a bit Does it make you feel superior questioning peoples reasons and patronising the poor?

How pathetic that seeing other people's miserable life makes you feel better. You misunderstand the use of the word patronising which means "talking down to people" and that is the opposite to what I am doing.

I was being sarcastic, i dont find it funny and it doesnt make me feel better about myself at all. Im not really arsed... there is nothing i can do about it. Cue being called selfish zzzz.

I saw it last week and will catch up with the new one on iplayer. I thought it was sad. Very sad. And had some people in it who were quite moving but still sad. The man with his 50p pots of powder for example. Of course there was some criminals and a lot of daytime drinking and I wouldn't want them for neighbours, but mainly they were hopeless. Just sort of hapless and hopeless.

There was a piece in one of the political blogs that said we have created expensive poverty. The fact that jobs are so low paid and rents so high. And that's what I saw. Poverty throughout. Poor education, not very bright, no idea how to make a difference. Just going round and round and now the benefits system is going to cut them loose. And they don't have a clue how to survive.

The 50p guy has been offered loads of jobs since the 1st episode was aired, thats brill.

Hickory- you sound like a really horrible person to be honest. But I am sure your hubris will eventually catch up with you. Claiming tax credits?