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Telly addicts

Protecting our children - is there a thread for this week yet?

355 replies

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 13/02/2012 21:06

Just wondering Smile

OP posts:
HJisthinkingofanewname · 15/02/2012 20:05

Social workers (in general) aren't taught to use car seats , it's a worry of mine.

Natzer · 15/02/2012 20:18

hardly rocket science, how to do up a car seat. Hmmm shocking!

HJisthinkingofanewname · 15/02/2012 20:19

Fitting car seats , car seats wrong for child, seats wrong for car, old seats.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 15/02/2012 22:23

Would you like my car set story?

Well ok then,
DS1 was 8 weeks old when we took care of him.

He started contact sessions a day later.
They were four times a week.
I had to sign a bit of paper that stated that I would treat him the same as my birth children. I did this happily.

SS then proceded to take this child off me four times a week, stick him in a car and drive him for half an hour across london without a car seat.
They would then bring him back in the rush hour without a car seat.

Could I do anything about it? No
Would I have allowed my birth children to go in a car without a car seat? No.
Would social services have made a note of concern if birth mum had driven about with her newborn unrestrained in a car? Yes.

It wasnt until DS was almost finishing his contact sessions many, many months later that the contact centre actually bought some sodding car seats.

OP posts:
HJisthinkingofanewname · 15/02/2012 22:27
Shock
TheParan0idAndr0id · 16/02/2012 09:58

They were doing an emergency removal of a child due to risk of severe harm, and you want to focus on the car seat ? WTF? Hmm

Perhaps they should have left him there while they found one that fit better.

wannaBe · 16/02/2012 10:59

"They were doing an emergency removal of a child due to risk of severe harm, and you want to focus on the car seat ? WTF?
hmm

Perhaps they should have left him there while they found one that fit better."

quite. Or do people need to find a reason to criticise the social workers? Hmm

I think it's worth bearing in mind here that the sw said that the instances of a child being removed like this are incredibly rare - someone said the last time they had ended up with a baby in the office like that had been two years previously.

It's a matter of priorities really isn't it.

My ds went into a forward facing carseat when he was younger than that, but then there wasn't this hype about them at the time.

It's about what works at the time, and this isn't exactly a regular event - it's about a child being removed from the home of a convicted paedophile where he is probably being abused - a ten minute drive across bristol in a forward facing carseat as a one off isn't the end of the world.

In fact if I'd had my time over again I would still have had ds in a forward facing carseat when I did (think it was about nine/ten months) as rear-facing made him hideously car sick.

wannaBe · 16/02/2012 11:01

plus, there is perhaps some argument that having a child being removed in such traumatic circumstances in a forward facing carseat might in fact reduce the stress if he were able to see where he was going, which wouldn't be the case with rear-facing.

HJisthinkingofanewname · 16/02/2012 11:19

My point about car seats was in day to day work not that situation. I didn't notice the seat in the programme

NanaNina · 16/02/2012 11:20

Thankfully the last few posters have injected some reasonabless into this debate. As they have pointed out this was an emergency removal, and the child had to be removed there and then. Sometimes the police have to remove children in out ofhours situations and they don't have car seats. I actually had to do the same thing myself on one occasion. Car seats are available in all Area Offices and are routinely used when necessary. Mind I a of course willing to believe that there might be sws who don't realise the importance of tightening straps etc. especially men (and women) who don't have children of their own.

lucysnowe · 16/02/2012 11:49

have seen it in a 4 month baby with an abusive stepfather and a mother who is too scared of the man to protect the child. This is a child who lies still in the pram and makes as little movement as possible and does not cry so as not to attract the attention of the abusive father. It is known as "frozen awareness" and the baby is indeed "frozen" and it is very chilling to see.

Nana, you mentioned this baby in a previous thread and I keep on thinking about it. Sad what happened to this baby? was he/she removed?

NanaNina · 16/02/2012 13:34

lucysnowe I was very new to social work but fortunately I had heard of "frozen awareness or frozen watchfulness." Ok - I'll tell you about it. I had been visiting a family where there were 2 children (the baby I refer to) and a little boy of almost 2yrs. The HV had raised concerns and I got the case. I was really worried because the mother had LDs and was living with a bloke who was not the father of either child, and very controlling and it was evident that the mother was scared of him.

On one visit I asked in the little boy (C) had any toys and stepfather (D) said yes he had and told C to go and fetch his trike. C did this in a robotic fashion and stood with the trike waiting for Ds instructions and when told to ride it he was again robotic. The baby seemed ok but obviously my concern grew. Fortunately I was 37 when I qualified and had 2 children of my own.

On another visit I saw the baby (K) lying in a pram as the way I have described her. I watched for quite a while and she was "frozen" inthat she didn't move or make a sound but her eyes moved to (D) and watched. She was like a rabbit caught in the headlines, and I knew that the baby was being abused by this man. Nonetheless on the advice on my senior I should keep visiting x 3 per week, some without arrangement. The family lived in a flat which was not bad really. Quite clean and tidy.

However on one of my visits, D was on the sofa holding K and I asked where C was and D replied "Oh he's in his bedroom hibernating" so I went to find him. It was really awful because C was crouched ina small space between the end of his bed and the wall, and had bruising to his cheeks, chin and ears. I picked him up and his little body was rigid. I asked what had happened and D said he had fallen out of bed, but this was ridiculous. I said I needed to take C to the GP about his injuries - D got agitated, raised his voice and said "Oh take him then" - the mother (L) came with me and the difference in C once he was away from D was amazing. He was like a normal 2 year old, jumping about etc. The GP confirmed the injuries were non accidental and looked like Colin had been hit quite forcefully in his face.

I then remembered that D wore big rings on every finger and told the GP and he said that the injuries were entirely consistent with being hit hard but with some kind of implement and in this case rings on D's fingers. L cried but confirmed that this is what had happened. She also asked if we would remove baby (K) because D was shaking her. I obtained a Place of Safety Order from a magistrate after he had heard the facts (they are called Emergency Protection Orders now) which meant that both children could be removed. We already had C, so I arranged for the police to accompany me to remove K and serve the Place of Safety Order on D, although he was not infact related to the children. (By this time it wa about 9.00 pm!) I went in and picked up K with the police standing in the doorway, but in fact D was quite calm about the whole thing and all he wanted to know was "where was L"

I placed both children in foster homes that night (different ones) as that was all that was avilable but the children were too young to be worried about being separated. Both lovely experienced carers. I have to say that baby K was a particularly beautiful baby and when I went with the foster mum the following day to the GP for K to be checked over, he commented on thisd himself!

Anyway the end of the story is that I placed C for adoption with a really nice couple (he was a vicar and they had 3 children of their own) and it was wonderful to see C playing in the garden and tree house with the other kids.

As for K - well the foster carers (who had fostered numerous babies) fell in love with K and asked if she could be considered to adopt her. We weren't that keen because L and D knew where the foster carers lived. However in the end we agreed. They had 2 kids of their own about 10 and 12 at the time. SO that's what happened and as far as I am aware she thrived with this lovely couple. I used to see her when they turned up for the foster carers and adoptors christmas parties etc and she was fine.

Needless to say L and D contested the adoption and there was a long hearing. At one point their lawyer asked me if C had been playing "peep o" when he was behind the bed!! I told him I knew the difference between a child playing peep o and a frightened child and this was a frightened child.

Both D and L went on to get hooked up with new partners and it was no longer my case but I think all Ds children were removed. He actually had LDs himself and had been to a weekly boarding school in the area for children with LDs and challenging behaviour. That school was actually closed when it was discovered that some of the staff were sexually abusing the boys and there was "child in child abuse" going on too, so who knows what D suffered. This is why I keep saying in these posts that every abused child I have come across in a long career of social work has always had at least one of the parents mostly both People then get angry and say they were abused as a child but didn't go on to abuse their children but that is not what I a saying IFYSWIM.

I have also been challenged that the cycle of deprivation can be broken but no govt has been able to find a way, and for me, I don't believe that it can be broken in entirety.

Sorry for the long post - it just brought it all back to me.....NNx

HowToLookGoodGlaikit · 16/02/2012 13:45

WHat a sad story with a happy ending NanNina, are you aware you named a child in it though?

HooverTheHamaBeads · 16/02/2012 14:46

I will no doubt be flamed but can't help thinking that Louise's two children stand a chance at a more settled and happy life if adopted out of the family as a sibling pair.

It is clear to see their grandmother loves them but how elderly is she and will she remain physically able to care for them for the next 18plus years? And how is regular contact (weekly) with a drug addicted mother who was unable to prioritise her own abstinence in the hope of regaining her daughter a positive thing?

Those girls deserve so much more, age appropriate parents they can spend their whole childhood with, being loved and cared for without contact with a mother set on a path of self-destruction.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 16/02/2012 15:21

My point about car seats was that i would never have allowed my birth child to be transported about without proper restraint.

I dont see why DS deserved any less consideration because he was a LAC.

I can see no reasonable excuse in those circumstances.

OP posts:
wannaBe · 16/02/2012 15:34

mrsd I do agree with that. my point was aimed more at the posters who, even in the face of the fact this child appeared to be being abused by the paedophile he was living with and needed to be removed immediately, chose to highly the fact this child was in a forward facing carseat, and straps were not as tight as they felt they should be, iyswim. I think that given the choice between the two senarios, a forward-facing carseat for a one-off journey was the least of this poor baby's problems, iyswim.

Nannanina that story is very Sad

NanaNina · 16/02/2012 15:49

Howtolookgood NO I wasn't aware I had named a child and read through my post again and can't spot it. Can you give me a clue! Mind this all took place in 1981.

NanaNina · 16/02/2012 15:52

Oh god just spotted it - and I tried so hard, just got carried away I think -sorry!

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 16/02/2012 16:00

wannabe he was 14 mths wasnt he? Foward facing is fine for that age surely?

I have to say the only thing I thought when i saw the car seat was 'thank God they carry car seats around with them now' Smile

OP posts:
NanaNina · 16/02/2012 16:07

Hoover I can agree with you on one level but if a child is not to be returned to his parents, the LA have a duty under the Children Act 1989 to ascertain if there are any relatives in the extended family who could provide good care for a child. If relatives put themselves forward, there has to be a very good reason to turn them down.

I too was worried about the age of granny in this case as the children were so young. Also see your point about mother visiting so often, but in a family situation it will be normal for a daughter to visit her mother maybe on a weekly basis. She may well play with the children for a little while, and they will just see her as an aunt or someone, but the important thing is, and I have stressed this before on this thread, is that granny will put the children's safety and wellbeing before her daughter's wishes.

When I was assessing relatives I would ask what their reaction would be if their son or daughter wanted to take their child out by themselves or even for an overnight stay. Most said in no circumstances would they allow that, but if they waver and um and are about it, I would usually suggest that the divided loyalty between their grandchild and daughter/son was going to prove too difficult for them and it would not be wise to take on the care of he child. Sometimes they would agree but of course others changed their mind and gave the "right" answer but I would have to be very convinced that they would put the child first before recommending them as carers for the child/ren. I actually had one granny (very young - late 30's) who said in response to my query "Oh well I couldn't sdtop her could I, it is her child after all" so that was a big NO NO.

Quite often it's a "done deal" because the child has been with the g/prts for months, sometimes years(!) and no one has bothered to put this arrangement on a proper footing, even though SSs have actually "placed" the baby with relatives on a "temporary" basis. It's almost impossible to move children in these circumstances and fortunately I never cam across such a case.

To some extent of course you have to take a step in faith and just hope that the child was put first because the only way SSDs would still be involved is if the relatives were approved as foster carers, and then there would only be a visit every 6 months just before the statutory review for LAC.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 16/02/2012 16:17

My DS's birth mother asssumed that once SS were 'out of the way' we would simply hand the baby back to her. Hmm

She seemed to think it was all a bit of a game and we were playing along with her.

Not suprisingly she was less than happy when she realised that we had meant all the things we had said to her and SS throughout the assessment.

It was sad in a way. She was so used to living a life of deceit that she though everyone lived that way.

We had been prepared to facilitate frequent contact but once she realised it wasnt going to be on her terms she lost interest.

OP posts:
OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 16/02/2012 16:20

hoover there has been quite a lot of research done that shows children bought up within their extended families do better than those who go into the care system.

Interviews with children bought up by family members illustrate the importance they put on remaining within their families.

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wannaBe · 16/02/2012 16:55

yes mrsd he was fourteen months, I would have thought that would be fine as well.

nanna perhaps just ask mn hq to change your post to put the child's initial instead of the name? given it was decades ago though I wouldn't imagine it was too highly an identifyable case though.

InsanityandherGerbils · 16/02/2012 19:14

I have seen Grandparents in their 50's and 60's do a fine job of raising their grandchildren, and everything turned out well. There can be very distinct advantages to being raised in the family, which shouldn't be overlooked. Having adopted 3 children and having seen other kids raised within their extended family, I am often aware of how little I can actually tell them about their origins. Being adopted outside the family can bring its own problems in that regard

And Mrs DV is right, I believe there are better outcomes for children who were placed with family instead of being put into care

lavendergirl123 · 16/02/2012 19:22

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