Protecting our children - is there a thread for this week yet?

[OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere]

Just wondering

I agree too

Yes, Kayano. I'm pleased it all went well, for you x

I agree in a sense too. It'd be kinder to both the parents who have to suffer having their baby taken away and certainly the child who has to go through so much.

But I do see the implications of doing so. Once we start sterlising one group of people, we'll then find more and more groups of people to sterilise - and then it becomes very messy. Also, some of these children who are adopted make a very good contribution to society, regardless of their circumstances so to do this, it seems like we're saying they shouldn't have been born and their lives are worthless because of what their biological parents did. That is most certainly not the case. I think most people (certainly the ones I know of) who are adopted early on and not suffered such abuse go on to lead near normal lives. It is those who aren't removed and suffer years of abuse who seem to suffer the most.

I'd be very surprised if any such thing happened in our lifetime anyway.

What's up Eirikur is it the sterilisation comments? :)

I don't agree with forceable sterilisation of drug addicts, But I do think that when you start a rehab programme you are also given a chemical/hormonal contraceptive, preferably the implant or injection.

They give medication for withdrawal so baby wld be ok. They are very careful when it comes to that and do it very gently.

Yes! Couldn't be really bothered to elaborate further...

drug use doesnt always equal bad parent!
I had a parent who had 2 boys, and used drugs. She was making things as safe as possible, hiding drugs out of reach, never getting drugs with kids around, and never doing them alone with the boys.
Not the best situation BUT those children had everything they needed.
We did send her to rehab though

And theres also no way of telling whether or not a baby will be born withdrawing either..some women use drugs heavily throughout pregnancy and their babies are fine, other women don't use and stick to their methadone and do everything possible to prevent the baby withdrawing and the baby cld have severe withdrawals..which is twisted really..mothers who work sooo hard to sort it out for the sake of their children and the baby still suffers..its horrible.

I don't know about sterilisation because obviously I wouldn't be here myself

But they really need to do something! It's crazy the financial implications of assessing child after child after child not o mention potential detrimental effects on the children

never mind how hard the mothers try to cut down on the drugs etc,oh and some babes dont withdrawl,while others suffer terribly,that child suffers from having whether physically/mentally/financially/neglect/,Every child that is born into a drug or alcholic house will suffer and i will not be swayed,and yes i do have experience of this

the user DOES have choices and help,the unborn/child does not

"Once we start sterlising one group of people, we'll then find more and more groups of people to sterilise -
and then it becomes very messy." You could apply that logic to so many situations though. you could say that children of drug addicts shouldn't be removed because "once you start removing the children of drug addicts you would move on to remove children from other groups and then it would become very messy," and so on. It just doesn't work like that - you assess each case on its own merits, and I'm sorry but once someone has had several children removed I think it is abundantly clear they are not going to be good parents.

"Also, some of these children who are adopted make a very good contribution to society, regardless of their circumstances
so to do this, it seems like we're saying they shouldn't have been born and their lives are worthless because of what their biological parents did." Not at all. No-one is saying existing pregnancies should be terminated, just that more pregnancies shouldn't be possible. It's no different to anyone else planning to not have a baby because circumstances don't permit it, it's just that in this case these individuals clearly aren't capable of mking that decision for themselves.

"They give medication for withdrawal so baby wld be ok. They are very careful when it comes to that and do it very gently." It is a hideous experience. Go and look in the fostering section at earthmotherimnot's thread about a drug adicted baby, and all the posts on there from other fc's who have looked after drug adicted babies. It's made as easy as possible for the baby, but it is by no means a non traumatic experience. The only saving grace is that these babies are generally so tiny that they won't remember, but there are other implications of drug use, brain damage, other disabilities etc. To claim that drug withdrawal for a tiny newborn is not a big deal to justify allowing feckless women to have baby after baby after baby in the name of their human rights is frankly ridiculous.

The thought of babies being exposed to crack as they form in the womb is just horrible to contemplate.

No need to turn into a facist because a programme upsets you. Eugenics is frowned upon these days.

Wow such an interesting series of programmes, the one that affected me most I think was the first one, it seemed such a sad decision, born out of depression for that lady to give her children up. She had lost the dead weight of a partner, with support I think she could have come through .

So glad manky flat lady sorted herself out, they did say that the ss involvement kick started a lot of intervention, so maybe she was depressed/ha mh issues and got help for them. It's obvious she was very isolated and just sunk into a spiral of drinking an not taking care of things, for a happy outcome.

I doubt the little boy will ever go back to the Mum in this prog, thank god for that.

To the people who call for enforced sterilisation, may you live in the world you wish for. Giving that kind of power to authorities always leads to a lovely utopia, where only perfect beings enjoy a life of freedom and fulfilment . And to those arguing that anyone should be sterilised because of lack of money to assess them, a pox on your houses, you do realise that money is not a physical thing, it's a concept, if we wanted to spend more time and effort supporting those in society that need it we could. We don't though.

Sorry my d is sticky.

I sort of agree with wannabe that sterilisation might be a condition for a (child)sex offender to be included in the community again.

I agree with the sterilisation and eugenics argument. I don't think it should be allowed. Although I would not loose any sleep if I was told that paedophiles of 3 or more convictions, had to be sterilised before being allowed back into the community.

I do get the argument for forced contraceptive injections for drug addicts / acoholics, and them having to come off the drugs, before the injections are stopped. Once off drugs, they could start a family.

My friend is a teacher, and some years ago, talked about a brain damaged child who'd had an alcoholic / drug addict mother. It was quite severe the damage caused, and I felt so very sad, to hear what the mother's behaviour had caused.

I did wonder whether there is an argument for forcing the mother into a mental health hospital for the duration of the pregnancy, if they are still drinking excessively and taking hard drugs, so that she could be monitored, and attempts made to stop this behaviour. I'm sure there are lots of ethical issues with this suggestion, that would make it impossible.

'To the people who call for enforced sterilisation, may you live in the world you wish for. Giving that kind of power to authorities always leads to a lovely utopia, where only perfect beings enjoy a life of freedom and fulfilment . And to those arguing that anyone should be sterilised because of lack of money to assess them, a pox on your houses, you do realise that money is not a physical thing, it's a concept, if we wanted to spend more time and effort supporting those in society that need it we could. We don't though.'

Well said. It wasnt that long ago disabled people were sterilised 'for the good of society'.

Watching it now.....so so sad. I take my hat off to social workers because I could not do the job. So sad that Louise could not get off Methadone even for her child - terribly sad.

This series was excellent. I think social workers get very bad press and this showed the reality.

Firstly, that life in this country for many people is pretty grim. It shed light on some of the problems we have in our communities and how necessary social work is.

You could feel frustrated with the parents but still understand their struggle. It was so heartening to see the social workers making some difference in some cases, even as they struggle with red tape etc. to protect children from some very sad circumstances.

I cried a lot watching this and admire dh and his colleagues even more now. It also helped me understand why he never talks about his job

I was so pleased that the Mum with the terrible flat got all the support she needed. I was really touched by the level of empathy the social worker and the housing lady had for her and she was just a baby herself and as a former young mum myself I know how you can struggle without the right support and I am pleased she was given the correct help in order to turn her life around and keep the little girl who she was obviously scared to death of losing.

I thought all te social workers were good, i am not sure where the middle class comments are coming from earlier in the thread I have had a whole host of SW's round my place over the years (for disabilitynot child protection) and they are a mixed bag of people like any other profession!

Why would you want to sterilise paedophiles?

I don't know but there's a very strong case for chemical castration. I know the exertion of power is a major driving factor but there must be an element of sex in it too. Maybe removing that drive would help.