Protecting our Children, Part 2

[Lilka]

Thought I'd start a new thread because the other one was so big

Anyone else going to be watching?

Starlight sorry I was I suppose being a bit devious. There has been an ongoing argument between me and swallowedafly and I didn't want to prolong it any further. It was just the post immediately after yours about attachment theory was swaf saying "it was outdated" and I think she meant attachment theory. Apologies.

I don't think sw practice uses outdated theories which support the cuts but I do think they are sometimes hypocritical in that they will find the cheapest option and then rationalise it as being in the child's best interests. Of course I don't lay the blame with public services because these viscous cuts have been imposed on them by the coalition govt and they really have no choice to make cuts that will make huge savings in their budgets.

I had better go before I get some Tory coming on and having a go at me!!

this predates the condem coalition.

no i wasn't talking about attachment. and more transparently snipey than devious i'd say.

away for a few days later so guess this post will be over by the time i get back and a new one on for the next episode.

NN I have one Supreme Court decision in mind when I give the figures of £80 - 100k. But most places post their fee structure on line, so just multiply their monthly figure by six, as six months is probably the minimum needed to benefit from a residential therapeutic placement.

Of course, if you have serious learning difficulties, you are unlikely to benefit, in that you may lack the capacity to internalize the teaching; it has to be constantly repeated, hence some parents could only parent with live in support. But the evidence seems to be clear that money and time spent on some parents will work to change them for the better.

But the Supreme Court affirmed that no one has the right to be made a better parent at public expense and it is now impossible to get funding unless LA agrees to pay.

So we do need a bit more debate about what kind of society we want and how much we are prepared to pay.

Thanks for that Spero - I see what you mean. Even at public expense the families would as you imply have to be veret carefully chosen. Hmm so which one of these disadvantaged families have that kind of money....

I did see a programme a few months ago called "A Home for Maisie" and she had attachment disorder - she was about 11 and had been through dozens of placements. The family that were considering her had already adopted several children, some of whom had grown up and Maisie would I think have been the youngest. The family were aware that unless she had intensive good quality therapy be an organisation specialising in this disorder.
They did in fact get their LA to fund the placement at Family Futures (not sure where they are in the country) and bits and pieces of the therapy were shown. Maisie was much better with the ad father than the mother, who she repeatedly kicked at times. However this amazing woman knew that this was some re-enactment of what had happened to her in her younger life and didn't take offence at all.

There was a good outcome and Maisie was finally adopted. However I am pretty sure that would be a one-off. As we know LA SSs (as all other public services) were struggling for finance before the Condem govt began slashing at the budgets of all public services.

Not sure what to say about your final para. I am loathe to mention politics on here but I think this govt cares not one jot for vulnerable children, struggling families, poverty etc and tbh I am disenchanted with the Labour party as Ed M is not supporting* the public services strikes and says he would make the same cuts in public services. We are without doubt in an anholy mess and I commented to friend recently (who is a competent historian ) that this govt was taking us back to the 30s and he thought it ws more like the 1880s...........I feel very worried about the most vulnerable people in our society as the "rug is being pulled (no tugged) from under them.

So feel frustrated and powerless to do anything about it! Have you any ideas?

I am afraid I have no ideas about how to fix this. I think the whole way our society is structured is to create and maintain divisions at a very early stage. For example private education is seen as the gold standard and children of poorer families can go to hell.

Our politicians seem in thrall to the financial services industries and 'intensely relaxed' about people getting filthy rich. They allow major corporations to not pay their taxes whilst cutting benefits for the disabled.

I am a capitalist as I think there are enough lessons from history about how communism fails, but there just has to be a better way of doing things than this. I need to read more about Scandinavian countries and how they operate, as I understand it their distinctions between rich andpoor are not as sharp as here or in the US.

One practical change I would like to implement is a strict six months timetable from first child protection meeting. No demonstrable change, child adopted. But this would probably mean we have to resile from the ECHR and just wouldn't be workable unless we had triple the number of courts and judges.

NanaNina, Family Futures is based in London, there are about 3 other theraputic centres arround the country one in Bristol I know of but none up north.
They are very expensive but I do know of some adopted children who have been helped by them. Luckily SS is not the only source of funding available and some families get funding from NHS and charities.
CAMHS ( children and adolecent mental health services) are throughout the country but their expertiese can vary considerably from one unit to the other.
Our local unit has been very good and have given us therapy for our children, parenting classes for us and mentoring for over 5 years.
Occupational therapy is another service available and there are other services you can access i.e. we have a charity called Children First in Scotland that does some great work and Barnardos also offer help. All of this is free.
Spero, one things the government are doing is relooking at the adoption process and are under consultation at the moment. This, I hope will look at the amount of time a child spends in an unaceptable environment and fostercare before finding permenance. as well as post adoption care and support. Thus children will suffer much less neglect and have access to much help in the future.
I don't know if they do this already but I feel that SS/mental health could suggest to parents who have had one child taken into care that they can have - rehab, counciling, or therapy if they take long term contraceptives.
I don't know if the snip has ever been mentioned to the Shauns of this world but I feel that there may be some take up and even if it is small the conversation is worth having.

The gov have been 'looking at' adoption certainly since Tony Blair expressed horror at how long children stayed in care. Nothing will change for the better. Because in order for things to change the gov needs to commit more resources - more social workers, more therapeutic help, more judges to speed up court timetables.

Sorry to sound so negative but I am very sceptical now of government consultations as they usually result in screwing things up even more because they cannot or will not put any money into their schemes.

The plans to push mediation and cut legal aid is one glorious example. Where are all the gov funded mediation centres springing up to take in all the bitter contact disputes once the publicly funded plug is pulled? Good ideas haveto be backed up with people and infrastructure.

Spero, perhaps I used the wrong terminology. The Gov. say they are going through a programme of reforming the adoption system. I was involved with the consultation process last year.
They have appointed Martin Neray as ministerial advisor on adoption ( previous chair of Barnardos).
The Dept. of Ed's. children's minister Tim Loughton(whom I personally don't get on with having had confruntations with him in the past) and the Sec. of State for Ed. Micheal Gove( who is himself adopted) are in charge of this.
So far they have only published figures showing different LAs in Englands' performance with regard to adoption ( time taken etc.), and have made a small change in the status of adopted children when it comes to education in that they will have the same rights as LAC children and given priority when chosing an appropriate school.
I have a bit more faith in their intentions, and know that they are looking at the time it takes for adopters to be approved and the time scale of children being in to care, the court system and before in the birth family.
Parents who contribute to Adoption UK ( along with other organisations) have been asked about their views and experiences of the process and of the post adoption services they have recieved for their children.

Spero I agree with you about how the govt want to keep their friends in banks and big businesses happy whilst at the same time reducing benefits even for the disabled and those with very serious illnesses. This work capability test is a farce. I had heard they were telling people undergoing chemotherapy were being told they had to find a job. I honestly didn't believe it but I am helping someone and got hold of the questionnaire the claimants have to complete prior to the WCT. There it was : are you having chemotherapy treatment? If yes: when was the date of your last chemo session? What is the date of your next treatment? barely believable.

Also they are undergoing a social cleansing exercise for people claiming Housing benefit and living in London. They are reducing HB for all claimants which will mean many people will be homeless or families forced to live in one room, as they will not be able to top up the rent by their by their benefit. People (who were claiming invalidity/incapacity benefit) are now being put on Jobseekers £59 per week and even for that paltry sum have to prove that they have made 2 telephone calls, written 2 letters and have called speculatively at shops,factories etc to ask for work. All this at a time when unemployment figures are rocketing. Oh god and the privatisation of the NHS .....better stop as I could go on.

Yes I too have an idea that the Scandinavian social policies are so much fairer than ours.

Re 6 months from first CP conference -decision made for adoption. What happened about the Public Law Outline - I thought that was meant to speed up the process. The only other thing is that once children reach the age of 5, their chances of being adopted significantly reduce. The need is for older children, sibling groups and children with disabilities. It is also incredibly difficult to find permanent foster carers for these children. Hence sometimes children have numerous placements with short term foster carers, which is far far from ideal, and it is small wonder that these children end up extremely damaged. SO sometimes it isn't possible for there to be a good permanent
solution for these children.

NN I do not think the PLO has speeded anything up. This may be due to the massive rise in care apps since Peter Connelly was killed.

Corcory, it's great that the gov is consulting and talking to people going through the system, but frankly how much talking do we need to do? All of us in the system have known for decades that there aren't enough judges or resources... For eg you may have a right to an assessment of your post adoption contact needs, but there is no right for any money to meet those needs when assessed so what's the bloody point?

And am not particularly reassured that Gove was adopted. He was a product of those days when lots of lovely little babies were available as single motherhood was seen as shameful.

Now adoption is manifestly NOT about babies but the 1-4 age group who frankly bybthe time they get to three probably got myriad emotional problems and require adoptiveparents who are much more than good enough AND who will be offered meaningful post adoption support.

The system is close to collapse. I am near,y bankrupt because the LSC rejects or loses my payment claims. No one with anything about them will now choose to become a family lawyer. social workers are leaving in droves or going on long term sick. We don't want anymore talking, we need a gov who will actually commit money to a creaking system or we will go the way of South Africa and the mined middle classes will have to huddle in gated communities to escapemthe underclass at the gate.

Sorry for ranting but I am just utterly fed up. Just come back from court where a LA apparently doesn't have the wit to get my clients criminal record disclosed. His child is 8 months old and we can't even begin an assessment. The clock is ticking for this child.

Interesting post Corcory - you mention the possibility of rehab, counselling, therapy etc in exchange for the Shauns and Marvas of this world if they agree to long-term contraceptives. I don't think the S's or M's would think that they were in need of therapy as they don't believe they have any problems. I can tell you (almost 99.9%) what the response to the "snip" would be for the Shauns - NO NO and NO again. You can't strike deals like this, as how could you possible know that they were taking long term contraception (the pill or vasectomy) and who would pay for this therapy IF it was accepted. There might be more take up for rehab, but is would still be impracticable.

Interesting about the consultation group you wereinvolved in. Martin Narey was very clear that children wait too long for adoption and so a good appointment. I am worried however about the govt's plans to "speed up" the adoption process. Whilst I think it can be too drawn out, I am concerned that we could go back to the days when prospective adoptors were "assessed" by adoption officers. I have seen some of those old files and believe me it made chilling reading. The "assessment" was all of one page of A4, and a typical assessment would mention the nice clean house and well tended garden and how the couple would teach the child right from wrong. Then a reference from the vicar and that was it - next thing you did was go and choose your baby whose mothers had been forced to give them up for adoption in the 50s, 60s and 70s. I was one of those mothers but thank god my parents supported me and I kept my baby.

I have only just got around to reading the Sunday papers and the Sunday Times news review has an extract from Charles Murray's new book. He is talking about the US but I think exactly the same applies here:

'a significant and growing portion ofthe American population is losing the virtues required to be functioning members of a free society. On the other side of the spectrum the people wh run the country are doing just fine. Their framework for pursuing happiness is relatively unaffected by the forces that are enfeebling family, community, vocation and faith elsewhere in society. In fact, they have become so isolated they are often oblivious to the nature of the problems that exist elsewhere.'