Protecting our Children, Part 2

[Lilka]

Thought I'd start a new thread because the other one was so big

Anyone else going to be watching?

its.
That's why I can't go back to teaching. Clearly it wouldn't be safe to let me loose on a class of illiterate teenagers.

< someone going out to their home to teach them to clean, to make up bottles, to educate on babies routines. This was during pregnancy. None of it sunk in. Week upon week the situation remained the same. >

and

< Teach the parents the importance of immunisations. Teach the parents how to sing songs, and do craft with their children. >

don't work because in very serious cases like Shaun and Marva, it's not lack of knowledge that stops parents doing these things - it's an inability to love themselves and an inability to love their kids enough to do these things

justone i think youth services have been corroded and corroded away till they're virtually non existent in many areas. i agree with you that 16yo are still children and i do believe they need and would benefit from a great deal of help and support.

Finally - It DOES help. I had no idea what a childhood immunisation was. I remember having to have MY imms at the same time as my DD...It IS a lack of knowledge. If it is outside your sphere of experience, then it IS a lack of knowledge. Once you have had immunisations explained to you, and the benefits vs. risks, I have yet to meet even the most, erm, difficult parent that refuses to get their dc immunised - except for the MMR - but that ISN'T the 'difficult' parents that I have met who refuse that one...

All my dc's have had their imms, despite me never having had them myself as a child.

I do love my dc's. MORE than enough.

And no, justone - there really IS hardly any support or charities for 16yo's. When I was 16yo, I managed to find ONE charity that was supporting young teenagers, particularly 16-18yo's, often care leavers, often teen mothers. It was 30 miles away from where I was living at the time. They do great work, they helped me loads - and now I volunteer for them. They are still just about running, but they are having DIRE problems with funding for the coming financial year, which may result in the project being wound up, after 20 years of supporting teenagers.

Finally, I disagree with you. Teaching is only as good as the teacher.

If the student hasn't learnt, the teacher hasn't taught.

I think justonemorethread is probably right - there is a circular debate (bordering on argument) on this thread. We have Huntycat who is doing so well but still doesn't seem to grasp that just because she got the help she needed and is a good mum, that is not the case for many people, and it is not all about money - Sadly as has already been said there are many parents who have LDs MH problems or who have been so traumatised in their childhood, that all the money in the world is not going to enable them to be good parents.

Spero It seems that you are of the view that money can fix these families. Can I ask if this was just one family at one therapuetic centre that you know of, and cost around £1000,000.

I think the thing is that all families are different and there is not a "one size fits all" remedy.

However before the thread ends (as another programme (last one I think) is on tomorrow night Swallowedafly - I see you are still active on the thread and I am still awaiting a response to my post asking for a response to the issues I raised.........................????? Come come don't be shy - maybe we could all learn from you and I may become better educated!

i'm really not going to be bullied by you nana and i will participate on any thread i choose to and how i choose to rather than having it dictated to me what i have to respond to. hth.

looks like someone beat me to reporting your post. i only just got to read it before it disappeared - gone by the time i posted in response.

Starlight have to disagree on the teacher point. If a student is thoroughly opposed to learning, they will not learn even with the best teaching from a fully committed teacher. Fortunately, most people are not completely opposed, and most teachers are at least adequate at their job so that some learning takes place. But it is not right to say that in every single instance it is the teacher's fault if the student does not learn. It should certainly be that if a student doesn't learn, the teacher should be prepared to exhaustively reconsider and change their practice to see if they can do something differently that will work for the student. Both are part of the equation. If a pipe is blocked at either one end of the other, water won't flow through (or something like that...)

I have a pscyhology background and have spent the equivelent of 16 hours a week researching child development in the context of my ds' autism.

I have to say that whilst I am at heart and in practise an 'attachment' parent and see the benefits, I absolutely and wholeheartedly agree with SAF.

I think the suggestion that children are stuffed after the early years as a result of poor attachment is outdated scientifically but a bloody convenient 'excuse' to imply that investment after this time is not of cost-benefit, and for this reason the education of social workers and many in the 'establishment' has been slow to change and update the courses and training.

This is also true of education for SEN children.

Swaf and Amberleaf As I said I don't normally go in for reporting posts to MN but did on this occasion after mine had been reported. So Swaf you will see that your personal atack on me of 11th Feb has been deleted as have several on this page, including you, Amberleaf and me, so think it's high time we agreed to differ without any further personal attacks.

BTW, Attachment parenting a child with ASD is HELL.

I did not appreciate the SW telling me at the carers assessment that ds took no more care and effort than a 'normal' toddler. Nor did I appreciate her telling me that despite his dx, she would be putting that he didn't have a disability on the form because she didn't see it.

What she didn't SEE what the absolutely exhausting and all-consuming buckling effort that was required to keep going with some resemblence of normality with a child that was so unrewarding and permenantly destructive.

And whilst I'm on a roll, I'd like to challenge the assumption that you learn how to parent fom your own parents.

Without a doubt I can tell you that it is my CHILDREN that teach me how to parent.

I mean, isn't the CRUX of what attachment parenting IS?

Isn't that the CRUX of what attachment parenting IS?

it's completely outdated but much clung to as many of these 'professions' don't engage with science just the social 'theory' that shaped the field (and reinforces the agenda), values and the law. it isn't just social workers to be fair - a massive shake up needs to happen in sw, psychology, therapeutic methods etc to move on and forwards engaging with what we now now about the brain from scientific breakthroughs. what is known needs to be made more comprehensive and available to those outside the field and applications of that knowledge in practical terms need to emerge. that'll take time and a lot of interdisciplinary cooperation and study (which is not easy to affect as people cling to their disciplines and get scared of them being eroded or overtaken etc).

starlight - horrified that the sw thought they knew better than the medical establishment. again i think there is a problem with overstepping professional boundaries and not accepting the limitations of your expertise and training.

oh and my parenting really looks nothing like the parenting i received.

It was literally a week after the dx SAF when I would have given ANYTHING for the dx to not be true. A SW sitting in my living room and exploiting my vulnerability in this area in order to refuse funding for any support or help (ds was 2 and I had a newborn and really WAS struggling) was cruel.

I requested another SW and got a better one. By better I mean she still refused any help but explained to me in plain English that it was her job to assess whether or not I would suffer a crisis in this budgetary year and in her opinion it would probably be the year after .

that would be funny if it wasn't real wouldn't it? oh my god!

Starlight I can see why you took offence at the social worker's comments - how insensitive.

However I can't agree that the crux of attachment theory is about what our children teach us. Attachment theory is very current (and not in any sense outdated) and most LAs put on courses for prospective foster carers and adoptors. In my view, it is one of the most relevant theories that needs to be put into practice, with enormous benefits for the insecurely attached child.

I am quite happy to give you some titles of books on attachment theory of very recent publication if you wish.

Where have I said that attachment theory was outdated?

What I was saying that current practice in most children's services use outdated theories that also conveniently support the cuts. Not just in social work but in health and education too.