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Telly addicts

Protecting our Children, Part 2

737 replies

Lilka · 06/02/2012 20:51

Thought I'd start a new thread because the other one was so big

Anyone else going to be watching?

OP posts:
swallowedAfly · 08/02/2012 18:52

if it's a good supportive school then she could hopefully just find a family to lodge with nearby (presumably they have to pay for her rent if they hoof her out at 16). school all day and hot dinner and safe place to stay at night ideally with some nice grown ups who'll watch out for her.

have everything crossed for her and am very glad she has you in her corner mrsd.

what's the score with university for care leavers? are they entitled to financial support of any kind?

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 08/02/2012 18:57

She has us to look out for her for as long as she wants us to.

SS have to support her through further education. That is why we pushed for her to get the LAC status. SS were very resistant even though she couldnt live at home. They tried to leave her on my sofa Hmm. She was only 15 then!

She is a lovely kid. It makes me so sad that people dont appreciate her.

swallowedAfly · 08/02/2012 18:58

what's lac status? leaving authority care?

AyeRobot · 08/02/2012 19:07

And the place where Marva was staying before she gave birth is under threat of closure.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 08/02/2012 19:10

Sorry. It means Looked After Child. In care.

If you are a LAC you are entitled by law to certain support. It is very hard to get Local Authorities to agree to accomodate (look after) 16/17 year olds.

I can see why in some circumstances. You cant have teenagers rocking up and asking to be put in care because they dont fancy living at home. But for vulnerable youngsters if can be horrible. Pushed into hostels and left to it.

Care is very expensive. I get that and I know how strapped LAs are. Its not these kids' fault that they have got families who wont/cant care for them though. They need proper care and support.

Some are happy to be left to it. A roof and some money is all they want. Lots want more but are destined to meet the self fulfilling prophecy that Kids in Care do Badly

ShagOBite · 08/02/2012 19:46

So glad she's doing well MrsDV (LL namechanged). How are you lovely? :)

ledkr · 08/02/2012 20:17

Mrs d Hi. Do you not have a post 16 support team? Has she got a pathway plan? I was trying to implement a buddy scheme for care leavers but it got kaibushed. I know my boys sill need me and they are in their 20's.Always phone me if they need money need anything or washing machine breaks or girlfriend dumps them etc etc.On sunday my 26 yr old rang me to somehow sort out the stray cat he had found Shock I dont see why care leavers shouldnt have that safety net.

ledkr · 08/02/2012 20:21

Sorry just thought. i have come across many many teenagers in care who's parents have placed them into care for just being pain in the arse teenagers.
I can understand some parents getting to the end of their tether but then they would just forget about them,not attend their meetings or have them home for stays or Sunday lunch,even xmas.I always felt that some of theses parents should have been prosecuted for abandonment but nobody had the guts to do it.

EirikurNoromaour · 08/02/2012 20:38

Southwark judgement is a piece of case law that means all 16 and 17yos presenting as homeless should have a social care assessment and be accommodated under section 20 if appropriate. Yes LAs will try to bat them back if they can but if you arm yourself with knowledge of the legal precedent you may be able to help her challenge it.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 08/02/2012 21:05

Hi shag I am fine thank you. Could do without launching into a stage 2 complaint about the LA I work for though!

ledker it is really hard to tell what LA has done because the young lady doesnt understand what is going on most of the time. This is a huge failing on LAs part because she is very clever and she is still confused. They managed to do a CiN assessment without her being aware of it! How the hell they managed that I will never understand.
She lives in a state of confusion and fear. Everything is so uncomfortable and uncertain for her. She lives with a carer who took off at Christmas and didnt tell her where she was going, didnt buy her a present or put up any decorations. She is clearly unwanted because the carer knows she has complained about her. Why should she have to live like that?
Anyhow she is moving out this week but not to another, better carer, which is what we had wanted. This has taken almost 6mths.

Eirik There are a very few bits of Case Law that I know and the Southwark Judgment is one of them Grin. I hate the way you have to know the law to get what a child is entitled to by that bloody law.

I swear down (as the kidz say) that kid would still be bunking at my place if I hadnt picked up a few bits of knowledge along the way.

CardyMow · 08/02/2012 21:09

My LA didn't have things like the current care leavers stuff in place in the late 90's. They paid your rent, in the cheapest rented roomshare or bedsit they could find, from your 16th birthday to your 18th birthday. I 'fell through the cracks' because my FC threw me out on my 16th birthday, but I was 'between' SW's IYSWIM - one had left, not been replaced. THAT FC'er was just in it for the money. When it was no longer forthcoming,I was persona non grata.

Eric - my DD was removed from my care - for 3 weeks. She was placed in 'voluntary' forced FC, and I had an awful time trying to get her back. But I did. And I am in a much better place mentally, and have been for over 10 years.

Dotty342kids · 08/02/2012 22:04

MrsdeVere, she is very lucky to have you around. And yes, I think it stinks that we have to arm ourselves with swathes of legislation to help young people get what they're entitled to. Sadly under the current administration I can't see that situation getting better for a while.

EirikurNoromaour · 09/02/2012 06:00

They paid your rent, in the cheapest rented roomshare or bedsit they could find, from your 16th birthday to your 18th birthday. I 'fell through the cracks' because my FC threw me out on my 16th birthday, but I was 'between' SW's IYSWIM - one had left, not been replaced. THAT FC'er was just in it for the money. When it was no longer forthcoming,I was persona non grata.

If that was the case in the 90s it certainly would never happen now. There is a statutory (legal) duty to provide appropriate housing and a named worker for every young person until 21 or older if in higher education. What you describe is thankfully impossible now.

I'm very pleased to hear about your dd, I had the wrong impression so happy to be corrected.

Spero · 09/02/2012 11:35

AyeRobot - thanks for your link, I have tried to sign the petition against closing the Well (as it is going to cost much, much, much more over time than £150,000 if they close it) but it seems to be an American site and is asking me to pay $2 to donate to the site, but then not accpeting me because I don't have a US address.

Could they set up a petition on the Gov site in the UK?

shouldnotbehere · 09/02/2012 11:50

The petition was rejected:

epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/24742

Finallygotaroundtoit · 09/02/2012 14:31

< Shaun would never be able to be a dad to any child but I feel he may have decided that 7 children being taken away and Mavre being pregnant all the time was not good and if it were suggested to him he may get the snip.>

I doubt he would ever voluntarily agree to sterilisation.

In the USA some offer a financial incentive to 'problem' individuals , There was an American Charity who I seem to remember coming to the UK and offering drug addicts money to be sterilised a year or two ago

There was outcry vigorous debate

Spero · 09/02/2012 14:58

The petition was rejected because it was outside an area of government responsibility? Boggle.

mrsjay · 09/02/2012 15:03

oh i saw a programme about that organisation they came to a town in scotland , offering the service , I cant remember if anybody took it , a woman who was a longterm drug addict did but there was something about being offered money she ended up getting it done on the nhs and the organisation was asked to leave , I know im being vague but it was a few years ago ,

duchesse · 09/02/2012 15:46

I can't see any problems whatsoever with paying women who are substance dependent to have a contraceptive implant or similar non-user dependent device. Much less chance of bringing a drug- or alcohol-damaged child into the world at a time she can't look after it and she can have the implant removed at a later date if she goes clean and settles down. Encouraging/bribing into permanent methods of sterilisation is a lot more dodgy ethically imo.

AyeRobot · 09/02/2012 17:57

How strange re the petition - I'm sure I signed it without paying anything or giving a US address. Maybe I posted an odd link - I'll try and find the thread on here where I saw it. I only posted it to illustrate that the help for people like Marla is disappearing fast and because I recognised the name of the place when I heard it on the programme.

And yes, Spero, that is boggling.

EnolaAlone · 09/02/2012 19:37

The Well petition has been handed over to the Council.
www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Petition-calls-shelter-saved/story-15027952-detail/story.html

NanaNina · 09/02/2012 20:07

I think there have been some very thoughtful posts and so many people who see that Shaun and Marva are victims of their own abusive childhoods. Huntycat I don't mean that all parents who were abused as children will go on to abuse their own children, and you are the the living proof that this is possible.

Swallowedafly I have agreed with lots of your posts but I honestly don't agree that Shaun and Marva were not sectioned because there is insufficient money for patients to receive inpatient care. They did not meet the criteria for a MH Section - an overdose in itself is not sufficient for a person to be sectioned.

Mind I think the time is not far away when you will be right in that there will be insufficient finance for many things currently offered by the NHS. This govt is selling off the NHS and pretending they're not. The want to privatise allpublic services, social work, teaching, nursing, police, etc etc and will not rest until they have done so. I think there has been mention in these posts of places to help the Shaun and Marvas of this world are closing down, and this will happen more and more, because of this govt. They are hitting out at the most disadvantaged people in our society.

Spero · 09/02/2012 20:23

Ayerobot, I have just got an email saying my signature was accepted on the petition so it's working!

swallowedAfly · 09/02/2012 21:02

i used to work in a psychiatric hospital, it was private therefore we only got to see the absolute worst case scenarios where local authorities had exhausted every service they had to offer - re: girls throwing themselves off of the roof of the children's home they had been sent to (i am not exaggerating here). they were the ones who had screamed and shouted and kicked for attention and could not be ignored and even then they were labelled and treated as 'behavioural problems' rather than the truth of having been through such horrendous abuse on such a broad scale that they were damaged and hurt and traumatised beyond what most of us are able to imagine.

i was left on 12 hr shifts of constant obs (minus food/statutory breaks) with a girl of 14 (i was 18 at the time) who had been admitted to the hospital but because she had a back injury was put in a private ground floor room over in acute rather than going on to the ward. it was me and her one on one with no respite. she shared with me the story of her life and i sat with her through brutal flashbacks. we played, 'my grandma went shopping and she bought...' in response to her flashing back to her brother and his mates pinning her down and raping her. what i should have done is pressed the alarm button and then a group of big strong men would have come in and pinned her down and restrained her because she was freaking out and threatening to hurt herself. i chose instead to sit on her bed and hold her hands assertively and say MY GRANDMA WENT SHOPPING AND SHE BOUGHT....

i was assigned to her for about a week. it was the end of my work there. i saw a sister every day and said this was too much, she was desperate for support and needed a therapist etc and it wasn't fair to leave me with her for 12hrs a day without support or back up. i was ignored. i did my best. as ridiculous as it sounds the 'my grandma went shopping' game saw us through - i'd come in the next day and see if we could remember a-z of the day before. she had constant flashbacks and the distraction game was all we had. i could not bear to pull that cord and let her relive a gang of men holding her down.

she, and many other girls like her but i knew more of her story because of the 12hr shifts with her due to her back injury and off ward care, was a survivor of things we can't even imagine and i really didn't need to imagine at that age frankly but was made aware of. her dad raped her as standard, she had some sense of self preservation that allowed her to cling onto a sense that it was him who was fucked up. her brother reached an age where he started having sex with her and then brought his friend into it too - still she had a modicum of hope and self preservation that said my family is fucked up. then one day she was raped outside of the home and that was it - any semblence of hope that this wasn't her but them disappeared - it was definitely her, she was marked for this, everyone saw her as this etc etc.

that ward was heartbreaking tbh because of having to realise that all of these teenage girls being labelled and treated as behavioural problems, awkward, fucked up etc were actually victims of more horrendous abuse than you can imagine and therefore unsurprisingly having had totally abnormal screwed up childhoods weren't exhibiting the most 'normal' and conformative behaviour.

that is the level of compassion and care shown for the most abused and fucked up kids in the country (only went there when local authorities had exhausted every service etc). so what kind of care and support is shown for the child who was 'just' abused by her dad, neglected in her needs, made to give sexual favours to mum's new boyfriend?

sorry this is long and random but i think sometimes people don't realise just how deep abuse goes, how bad it is for some, and how little 'we' do for them. if these girls could be good, not stick things up their fanjo, not slash their arms open with whatever they could get hold of with a vaguely sharp edge and do as they were told they might be allowed to progress onto the next ward level up which meant they were allowed to go out a bit and have a cup of tea at a local cafe rather than being on total lockdown. they were 'behavioural' patients - the problem allegedly was their behaviour problems and they just needed to learn to be good girls - in reality they were ptsd patients who were trying to make some sense of reality.

i can't pretend that we care about these people and do all we can for them. one of the best hospitals in the country treated them as problems to be fixed (re made to behave and be good) rather than broken children who needed to be loved and reassured and healed. it was gutting. frankly i would have been better off not knowing how we treated the victims of screwed up pedophiles and psychopaths at that age but their you go.

sorry if very irrelevent seeming but the reality is that there are people amongst us who were raised being raped and beaten by daddy, uncle, next door neighbour, brother, brothers mates etc etc. they may appear dysfunctional and naughty for not being able to conform to basics we agree are essential but it's no real wonder.

AmberLeaf · 09/02/2012 21:11

Good post Swallowedafly

Ver relevant IMO