We hope it's not The Final Problem. Sherlock - 9pm Sunday - BBC1

[givemushypeasachance]

I thought it might be an idea to start a new thread for The Reichenbach Fall since The Hounds got its thread up to over 200 pages since last Sunday!

Non-spoilery vague preview description: "Sherlock and John lock horns with their old enemy in one final problem that tests loyalty and courage to their very limits. Sherlock must fight for his reputation, his sanity and his life. But is he all he claims to be?"

BBC link for The Reichenbach Fall

Take note of the later start time of 9pm. Get your deerstalkers and spiffy pocket magnifiers ready!

Any room on here for a bona fida Holmes fan? I mean of the books too and I'm very impressed with the series, they have taken a lot out of the books and for fans like me, the series is littered with actual quotes and references from other Holmes stories - even inserting the odd familiar character.

However - with the gay thing. Watson was married in the books, he married Mary Morstan in A Study in Scarlet and moved out, only visiting Baker Street to call in upon his friend. No TV series or film has accurately portrayed this, I guess it's easier to have them both living together.

Also, when Doyle wrote The Final Problem, his intention was to kill Holmes for good. He wanted to focus on his historical novels and felt that Holmes was getting in the way. There was a huge public outcry however and he received some pretty nasty letters. He wrote The Hound of the Baskervilles after Holmes' death, as an account from Watson's notes as he couldn't think of any other character who would fit the story so well. Then after huge pressure from his own mother and his editor, he resurrected Holmes in The Empty House.

It was easier to do in the books as Holmes' body was never found. I am guessing that in the TV series, his pathologist friend would have helped with the body. Watson only saw glimpses as he had received a knock on the head due to the cyclist (a Baker Street irregular). I don't know how they would explain the actual jump however, but Watson was on the floor for a while, thus giving Holmes the chance to swap bodies so to speak. Those people around the body may well have been in on the whole thing.

Anyway, I must also confess to being a bit jealous of this whole thing. I am an ardent Holmes fan, I collect old editions of Conan Doyle stories and anything that is authentic and Sherlockian. My own son has Sherlock as his middle name. Now all of a sudden there are Holmes fans everywhere! It's nice to see but I suppose my secret hobby is now fast becoming everyone else's hobby too. I just hope it makes people curious enough to start reading the original books, which are just fantastic!

I love the affectionate nods to the cliches that have built up around Holmes and Watson in the past - like the "confirmed batchelor John Watson" description despite his multiple dates with people of a female persuasion, and the deerstalker ("it's a Sherlock hat now!").

I look forward to much re-watching to see what I've missed the first time round. Like did people spot the "make believe" wall art in the journalist's house? That had to be pointed out to be afterwards!

Oh the hat - you can tell this series was written by dedicated Holmes fans! In the books he never wore a deerstalker, just as he doesn't wear one in the series. Sidney Paget, the illustrator drew him in a deerstalker and thus Holmes became forever linked to that hat despite him never actually wearing it.
Someone who loves the detective as much as I do, and Gatiss obviously does, gets my full respect.

I hate hate hate the Hollywood version but loving this one. I always wondered how Holmes would fare in todays world. They've done it brilliantly and I know many true Sherlockians are loving this series too.

TheRhubarb - I've loved the books since I was a kid and used to watch The Great Mouse Detective practically on repeat; then there was the lovely Jeremey Brett with the Granada TV version and audiobooks and adaptations... I also love the RDJ and Jude Law versions for the humour and spectacle they've brought to the big screen; each are excellent in their own way.

I think there may have always been more keen Sherlockians about than others might have expected!

Much kudos to you for your DS's middle name! Maybe if you have another you'd think about Hamish?

To anyone thinking about trying the original ACD stories, they're all available to read for free online or as ebooks since they're out of copyright. Plus any decent library should have around a dozen copies of the different collections! A Study in Scarlet is the tradition starting point since it's the first one and that's where Holmes and Watson meet, but to be honest it's not my favourite of the stories - particularly since there's a whole chunk with nothing to do with Holmes and Watson at all. You can really pick and choose and jump right into the middle of the short stories - some absolute classics like The Red Headed League, Silver Blaze or The Speckled Band might be a fun introduction - or The Hound of the Baskervilles just since that's the most common adaptation and something most people are familar with at least a bit. Do enjoy yourself if you're new to it!

Mark Gatiss is being evil on twitter too - "Gotcha! And of course there'll be a third series! It was commissioned at the same time as series two!!"

Aughhh!!! I remember reading that 6 more episodes had been commissioned. Was really happy thinking that the 2nd series would have 6 episodes, and when it was only 3 started googling. Really pissed off because I couldn't find any further reference to the further 3 at all. I wonder whether the 3rd series has actually already been filmed, so the actors all knew they were free for 2 years and were able to take on the movie commitments but were sworn to secrecy to keep the 'death' episode exciting. (Desperately hoping that this is true and that series 3 will be released sooner rather than later!!!!)

givemushypeasachance - love to meet you! Yes I think that there have been many Sherlockians lurking out there (I used to belong to a Sherlock Holmes society) and they are all now coming out of the woodwork, confessing their guilty secret! I am very pleased that Holmes has rightly been resurrected by the BBC and it has sparked such interest in him. Conan Doyle would be astonished (and slightly dismayed) that 150 years on people would still be fascinated him him.

Sorry I don't plan on having any more kids, but if I did then Conan would simply HAVE to be the middle name. My son is lucky enough to have Arthur as his first, with Sherlock his second. Yes I am that sad and that big a fan. It's rare I get to talk about my passion and now that I've started you'll probably not shut me up!

My 11yo dd is currently reading the Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and loving them. I fully recommend these short stories as they contain, in my mind, some of the best stories and all of them are short enough that you could read them in your lunch break. The longer stories tend to pan a little to Doyle's interest in historical novels, all but the Hound of the Baskervilles which is of course a classic.
If you read the stories then I guarantee that you will watch the series with renewed enjoyment as you will 'get' many of the quotes, little side plots and characters that only readers of the books would recognise.

sorry, that should be lovely to meet you otherwise I sound like a stalker!

Oh the hat - you can tell this series was written by dedicated Holmes fans! In the books he never wore a deerstalker, just as he doesn't wear one in the series. Sidney Paget, the illustrator drew him in a deerstalker and thus Holmes became forever linked to that hat despite him never actually wearing it.

I was loving the hat thing, but I didn't know this - that makes it even better : )

I'm off to download all the novels and stories for my kindle now.

Cool - one more fan in the making!

Don't worry you didn't sound like too much of a deerstalker!

Conan would be a lovely name too as long as they didn't bring back Conan the Barbarian; Arthur probably was the safer bet as a first name!

Spotting references like the (engineer's) thumbs in the fridge, the awful puns of "the Speckled Blonde", squeaking with joy when the Diogenes Club appears and that explains why Mycroft sent a text after the security breach in The Hounds when he always phones rather than texts (dental visits permitting) - it makes watching the episodes a multi-layered experience, if that doesn't sound too poncey.

I re-read the Final Problem and Empty House yesterday evening as preparation; I feel a whole canonical re-read coming on soon!

More random Sherlock trivia for new folk: there's a whole sub-group of fans who like to pretend to believe that Sherlock Holmes was real and that Watson really wrote his memoirs, with Sir ACD just pretending to be the author of a fictional detective stories when really he was a front for Holmes and Watson. That whole idea is referred to as The Great Game, and people who study Holmesian matters will refer to everything as though they were all genuine historical events and the characters were real people.

Heh heh heh! She's right you know!

Well I loved it

TheRhubarb, can you clear something up for me please?

I know Watson marries and sets up his own practice, but by the end of The Empty House, is he not back living with Holmes? I thought his wife died, but I might have just made it up!

Yay for a 3rd series. I have to admit to never having read the books but will get on the case now as the series has got me in the mood.
Just one thing from last night (sorry if already mentioned up thread) but was there any explanation given for the little girl screaming when Holmes met her? I'm assuming something Moriarty did but didn't see any explanation for it.

Yes his wife did die. Watson was married throughout the Adventures of and Memoirs, with some of his tales recounting cases of when he still shared rooms with Holmes. But Doyle no doubt thought that the marriage got in the way of their partnership so when he resurrected Holmes, he killed Watson's wife sadly.

A Holmes mask?

Fuzzywood - Moriarty seemingly arranged for the kids to freak out at the sight of Sherlock but it wasn't explained how. Maybe the kidnapper wore a wig and a long coat - that might be enough to trigger memories - or even more cool, a full-on rubber Sherlock!mask.

Can anyone tell me how the hell he survived the fall?

(crawls slowly away under the desk!)

Steven Moffat talking to digital Spy:

"I don't know if we'll do anything with this, but the fact that Doctor Watson is married for loads of the stories is really interesting. He and Holmes don't always live together and I think that's become a lazy way of doing Sherlock Holmes - they always live together. They didn't actually and why would they? Nobody flat-shares forever, so there's loads of details we can get in there..."

Just had a quick look on iplayer and you don't see him hit the pavement - you see him hit something but the body is right at the bottom of the screen and then it cuts away quickly. Next time you see the body, it's on the pavement There is also definitely a truck of some kind which we get a quick glimpse of just before John is knocked down & then you don't see it again.

Yep, truck full of cushions, I reckon.

There will be a gazillion theories explored by the time the next series comes along melika - until Messers Moffat, Gatiss and Thompson speak up then speculate away with the rest of us!

Phew - caught up with all the posts!

I absolutely loved last night's Sherlock. The episode zipped by and I watched a lot of it with my hands over my mouth in an "oh my goodness" way!

Martin Freeman was superb. The bit at the beginning with the therapist was quite moving, but the graveside scene was very very moving. The part when he touched the top of the gravestone made me well up. The bit where he was asking Sherlock not to be dead and his voice caught on the word "dead" was done so so well. Heart wrenching.

When did they visit the grave by the way? Was it a short time after the funeral or was it at the 18 months after stage when Watson was seeing the therapist?

I have changed my mind about Moriarty. Thought he was perfect in last night's episode. The bit in the journalist's flat where he was pretending to be all frightened and Sherlock walked towards him, you just saw a little evil glint. Fantastic acting. No idea if he's alive or dead.

I've watched the end bit again because DH reckons he threw a different body off. I don't think so because you see him standing on the ledge and then taking a step forward. But we didn't see him land. I agree with what other posters have said that he very deliberately told Watson where to stand. I'll have to watch it again - oh no, what a shame - but yes, he must have landed in the lorry and then a fake Sherlock was brought out with the cyclist deliberately knocking Watson over to delay him.

Mycroft is definitely in on it and will help to clear Sherlock's name when he comes back.

Finally - apologies for massive post! - at the grave scene when Watson was talking I kept saying to DH "he's not dead, he's not, he's not". Then when the camera panned across at the end to show him, I will confess I was doing a happy dance with "he's not dead, he's not dead".

Sorry for mammoth post!

Was the body not something to do with the favour he asked of Molly? I assumed she helped him with providing a suitable double?

Watson's blog links to a 'BBC news clip' about Sherlock's death that doesn't mention Moriarty/Richard Brook being dead too...