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Telly addicts

Crimson Petal

266 replies

Frimblypoo · 06/04/2011 21:37

Chris O'Dowd's todger! I can't watch the IT crowd in the same way again!

OP posts:
Spatz · 27/04/2011 22:59

hooray for a happy ending for the goodies
shame she didn't get William too

edam · 27/04/2011 23:01

I was very happy when I found that short story, I can tell you - Sugar's and Sophie's fate had been playing on my mind. Sugar's a character who stays with you. Everyone I gave the book to says that.

EricNorthmansMistress · 27/04/2011 23:04

I half thought she might do for William before she left. What an utter, utter shit.

RoyalFucker · 27/04/2011 23:06

I think we can assume that William will be punished enough

he was a useless twat before he met Sugar, he shall revert

edam · 27/04/2011 23:09

Royal Fucker - yup, Faber agrees with you in the short story. Wish I could remember what the collection is called! But I still fear for Sugar - Faber might have given her a happy ending in another story but it's like parallel universes, there are dozens of other possibilities floating around where it doesn't end so well... (I know it's all fantasy but can't stop suspending my disbelief wrt Sugar.)

Spatz · 27/04/2011 23:11

William was pathetic, really - so easily led by his ghastly friends and lacking insight where women were concerned

ChickensHaveNoEyebrows · 27/04/2011 23:14

Amazon are selling both 'Crimson Petal' and the short story collection ('The Apple'?) for bargainous prices. I am furiously downloading.

RoyalFucker · 27/04/2011 23:16

chickens, get "Under The Skin" too

you will not regret it

RoyalFucker · 27/04/2011 23:17

well, you might because you won't be able to get it outta your head Smile

Thingumy · 27/04/2011 23:32

I loved,love,loved it all.

I must buy the book and the short 'Apple' follow on...

Anyone else got any recommendations on similar Victorian novels (read all of Sarah waters novels ie Fingersmith and Affinity)??

sonearsofar · 28/04/2011 07:54

Thanks Jajas - I've obviously remembered the ending wrongly.

It's been one of the few times that I've enjoyed the programme more than the book - didn't Fingersmith come out at roughly the same time (also The Adaptions) which I enjoyed more than this.

Am I right in thinking that, in the book, Sugar did some sexual trick that no other prostitutes did, but we were never told what it was? Or am I getting it wrong again.

coldcomfortHeart · 28/04/2011 08:12

Ooh that was goooood. Others who I've recommended the book to thought she would end up prostituting herself and Sophie and beginning the cycle again. But the change from having sex with the coachman to keep him quiet (ie she is still a prostitute) to whacking him instead I think gives more hope to the escape-from-prostitution angle. I think they went off to NZ or Australia or America as these locations are mentioned repeatedly in the book... that's my happy ending anyway!

sonearsofar in the book Sugar's 'thing' is that she never says no to anything, and William goes and asks her for something which she does- but we don't find out what.

Faber's first novel 'Under the Skin' is very aptly named, totally different and very haunting. Same great storytelling but a different genre and pretty bloody disturbing!

RoyalFucker · 28/04/2011 08:41

oh thank God, someone else who has read "Under The Skin"

it sticks with you, doesn't it ?

Jajas · 28/04/2011 09:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RoyalFucker · 28/04/2011 09:12

Jajas, it defies explanation, honestly

Kinda fantasy, kinda science fiction, kinda weird (and I usually hate weird fantasy stuff and have low tolerance for poorly-written science ficion)

I cannot explain it, and have managed to do it no justice at all by attempting to

Just get a copy of it

SilkStalkings · 28/04/2011 09:15

OK so I am now baffled about Fox and Curlew - they seemed so scheming before and then they were both kind to Sugar at the end. Did they only abuse/seduce stupid rich people?

I totally forgot that Agnes had cut off her hair so that the body not being her totally escaped me. But.... Sugar told Agnes to go to the station and the destination would speak to her and be obvious. Perhaps, either Sugar knew it went somewhere with a soppy name so they would have a rough idea where Agnes would go, or she and Sophie just got to the station and did the same thing.

ChickensHaveNoEyebrows · 28/04/2011 09:15

Royal, does anyone get raped/abused or do any puppies die? Because those are my no-no's

RoyalFucker · 28/04/2011 09:28

erm, yes

men get abused, but it kinda serves 'em right

does that help ?

it's not that distressing, rather more disturbing in a "wow, that is weird!" way

it's quite far from reality, which helps if you can't read distressing stuff

RoyalFucker · 28/04/2011 09:29

it's interesting that you mention "puppies", chickens Grin

dogs are featured, kinda

Debs3013 · 28/04/2011 10:37

After watching eps 3 I went off hunting for spoilers on-line and managed to ascertain that Sugar took Sophie. I then bought the book and read it as I had to find out what the hell William did to deserve to have his child kidnapped - to be honest, he didn't do anything that warranted that. I had thought Sophie must be in some kind of grave danger but she wasn't at all.

I have to say whilst I loved this adaptation, the book is a lot less sympathetic to Sugar and Agnes which makes their actions for more understandable.

Agnes has the readers sympathy as she is mad (and was mad long before she met William) but she is not a nice character at all. Sugar even sees her as an incredibly selfish, spoilt woman and makes the comment when reading her diaries that it's all 'I, I, I, where is William, where is Sophie?' She treats William appallingly because he doesn't become a famous writer and keep her in fine dresses as she expected.

Sugar has the readers sympathy because of her circumstances but you are never without the understanding that she's a hard nosed prostitute who will do whatever it takes to keep William, her meal ticket, in her grasp. Her relationship with Sophie is not as sweet as we saw in the adaptation and in fact some of it is bloody disturbing. She never gives ay of her money to Agnes to aid her escape and in the book, nobody (including the reader) knows that it isn't Agnes who's found dead.

I personally feel that by trying to be more sympathetic to the main female characters, parts of the story then don't 'fit'. Like making Dr Curlew some kind of shadowy villian, just waiting to abuse poor Agnes - he's not that at all, he's just a doctor (arrogant granted) who's trying to do his best by his patient - unfortunately for Agnes's particular hang-ups, madness in women involved alot of internal shuftying about. He's also right, she's a complete fruitloop who needs to be in an institution - it's never alluded to that there's some kind of sinister plot involved.

They also made Emmeline Fox another sisnister, shadowy character when in fact, I think she's the most sympathetic of everyone. She's very much in love with Henry and vows to marry him after her illness passes and in the end, is slightly 'eccentric' and keeps cat turds in a box!

I would highly recommend the book, it is beautifully written but very, very graphic and at times, very disturbing.

Ooo this is such fun - is this what being in a Book Club is like??

Bue · 28/04/2011 10:40

It's so interesting that we can all interpret the ending so differently. Never would have occurred to me that Sugar could begin the cycle of prostitution again! Seems very clear that she is going to be a loving 'mother' and the antithesis of Mrs Castaway.

I liked how the ending mirrored Agnes's departure, but I am a bit torn about Sugar taking Sophie - even if Rackham is an utter ass. I like to think Agnes found her convent :)

The question that remains a total mystery to me is why Agnes rejected Sophie? Why could she not acknowledge her baby? And was Mrs Fox really not sick - to what end? And at some point did Sugar develop feelings for Rackham? Or was she just worried about maintaining her position, and in the end her pride was hurt at being cast aside so easily? Argh I need closure!

Bue · 28/04/2011 10:43

The book purchase is definitely in order!

ChickensHaveNoEyebrows · 28/04/2011 10:48

See, I didn't feel sorry for William. He had no real interest in Sophie, making comments about her being 'unfortunately a girl' and not needing educating because of it. I certainly didn't feel that he loved his daughter. I thought that Sugar took her so that she wouldn't end up like her mother, a sort of patronised pet. I didn't get the impression that Sugar took the child to punish William, but I'm only going on the tv series as I have yet to read the book.

Debs3013 · 28/04/2011 10:56

The book certainly gave me the impression that she took Sophie to punish William but that's the beauty of the book - the characters are so ambiguous, no real good and no real bad, that everyone will come away with their own impression.

Sugar was much, much harder in the book.

confuddledDOTcom · 28/04/2011 11:28

Agnes didn't really reject Sophie as such, she didn't know she existed. She didn't understand her periods, sex or her pregnancy. Her diaries sounded cross that William was bringing some baby into her home without telling her. She must have found the birth traumatic because she wasn't expecting it nor understood it.

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