swearing and shouting wanting no boundaries,i can't see a way forward

[thebestofit]

our dd is angry about staying out and having her own way without permission
when i picked her uplast night and said she had to come home not stay at friends house she went mad screaming and shouting at me in the street and car i was actually a bit scared.
I had been keeping the peace letting her do more or less as she pleased within reason but her dad said to be firmer so i grounded her for going out without permission but she won't stick to the grounding just stays out.When i went to get her she became totally out of contrl f*ing and blinding,calling me a fing b*ch and said she would run off.
I feel very worried and don't know whether to call parentline[if she is out] or actually wish i myself could just leave as her dad is inconsistent and not helping and i can't take any more.
she is 16 in the summer and if this carries on she'll have to move out i don't know if that involves a social worker or not.
Any genuine advice please but don't be too ott in what you say as this is becoming very worrying and fragile

custy thankyou
her behaviour does come over as spoilt and wanting her own way~she is headstrong and she does want to be in charge,this is what its all about including manipulating dad

but she is also a child who has lost a lot and is clinging on to what she can

so if i take everything of hers she will go into absolute inner meltdown ~like last night i thought she was going to run off into the dark or harm herself even in her room and i was frightened for her as well as myself

so i need tough love or firm love where theres not too much conflict or destroying her things as i'm genuinely afraid atm for her mental state

after my last post i realise i have to be firm and strong and put my own upset to the side for a while re dh as i don't really think she can cope with too much upheaval atm...if he backs me up that is

i have asked dh to say"mums in charge" and repeat what i say

Creative Zen's idea for decent rules seems good. Ultimately you have to be happy with what you agree to. If you think one of her rules would be staying at her boyfriends you need to decide how YOU feel about it as some people would allow it and others wouldn't. If you decide you're not OK with it you need to explain to her why. Can he stay at yours? In different/same rooms? Can you speak to the boyfriends Mum - assuming he's of school age too!
When I was her age we did pretty much as we pleased, but still had to do housework, jobs outside of the home to earn cash and lived in a village with poor bus routes so were limited to what we could do.
What were you like as a teenager? Can you remember? Were you a perfect angel or a tearaway?
To be honest your daughter doesn't really sound all that bad to me. She's annoyed as the rules weren't clear to begin with which is why she thinks they're unfair, she's totally out of order to swear at you, but how many teenagers who are completely beyond caring spend their Easter holidays rehearsing for a play? You say yourself she is bright so I'm guessing she's doing OK at school and she has a boyfriend which is quite steady. I had my first serious boyfriend when I was 16 and I know I was allowed to stay at his a few times after we'd been together a while and even went on holiday for a week together - to my sisters, with my brother in the next room, but still...
All children/teens play parents off one another if they can get away with it. Also she will hate you the most if she's feeling like hating at the moment precisely because you are her Mother who she loves and trusts the most. At the moment she may feel like she can't trust you so she's decided to hate you instead. Don't let it get to you, she may hate you for the next couple of years, but not forever.
Ultimately it's going to be hard to try to deal with your DD when you are unsure of your relationship with your dh. Good luck, hope your eyes are less puffy now. X

Can you ask her to babysit one night and say it's OK for her boyfriend or another friend to keep her company. That way maybe you and dh can have some fun together and you can show dd you trust her? Maybe not something to ask just now, but once things are on a more even keel. I think the more responsibility you have the more you take responsibility for yourself and appreciate what the grown ups do.
The "Mum's in charge" rule has to go both ways though. If you are out and she asks her Dad for something he can either ask her "would your mother let you?" or make his own decision and then you would have to back him up the same as he will for you. Any discussion/disagreement has to be out of earshot. United we stand and all that!

gg thankyou
i didn't mean she is bad
as a teenager i was very well behaved and would have been worried about being with anyone who was up to no good,but i loved to go out but then got a lift back at end of evening .i didn't tell lies and my parents knew i was a goody goody so there was no problem

she is a good kid but something is wrong atm
locally the boys are not v nice and some are in trouble with the police;there isn't much to do here.she is hanging in a crowd with no parental input at all some are smoking cannabis,one has been done for this i know,several of them are rude and swearing with v bad reputations.

this last week has been a total fiasco becos of mixed messages and disagreements between me and dh but the underlying problem is her wandering around all day and night with unsuitable people and telling us the rules

i need to decide on the most basic rules and have her input on this and agreement

she was doing well at school,not so much now

i don't undermine dh, part of this week has come about as he said for her not to go out last week so i followed that thru

her boyfriend is also a dropout and has been investigatedby the police and i know he took items from a house during a party
a friend has said not to leave him alone in the house as he has been known to steal
i don't know if this is true,but out of all the young people i've known and liked in this area i also do not know he is a suitable babysitter he is also rumoured to be into drugs;my dd says not now

gg~ the thing about the rules being unfair,yes sort of i need to be clearer but she doesn't want any rules and when it comes to crunch time,just goes ahead whether shes allowed or not~its just meaningless waffle really cos whenever it comes to time not to do something thats when it all starts to kick off

so if i can agree rules with her tonight that might be better~altho i did rules a few weeks ago, she just said theywere ridiculous and wouldn't read them

she needs to be reminded she is the child, you are the adult, and she needs to grow up and start behaving in a way that earns and deserves respect and responsibility and privileges

she would not read the rules???

if you think you can sit with her and determine rules she will abide by, give it a go, but it sounds as though she will scoff at everything you suggest

lulu what is reasonable?
gg says she did pretty much as she pleased at that age~so did i but it was very innocent
so what is fair?

Cannabis is a huge problem at this age. If she is bright but not doing well at school, cannabis may well be the reason. Sorry to say it, but cannabis and bad company were the cause of ds1's behaviour. I did involve the police in the end - it was the only way to drag him back from the brink.

I did everything I had to do, including removing all phones and computers from the house, hiding the car keys, searching his room, you name it, I was determined.

You HAVE to take the money out of the equation - especially if there is an unsuitable boyfriend who may be using/selling drugs.

Was it worth it? Yes, absolutely.

He appreciates everything I did, even though it was horrendous at the time. Now he tells me often how glad he is that I loved him enough to be tough.

Sorry - rambling a bit, but it was a very difficult time.

Teenagers, like toddlers, need boundaries.

when i was 15 /16, i was allowed out on a saturday night, i could be home 2am at the latest and had to tell my parents where i was.

i was not allowed out later than 10 - 10.30 on school nights

i was given pocket money but was expected to assist with some cleaning, tidying, cooking and keeping my own room in a decent condition, no computer or mobile at that time, but i had unlimited phone access etc

once i was in sixth form at school, i was responsible for ironing my own clothes

if i had spoken to my parents the way your DD spoke to you, i would have been grounded, had privileges taken away

however, i don;t remember a huge list of rules and regulations, i knew what was expected of me, and the fear of upsetting and letting down my parents kept me in check

i also knew if i was an arse, that there would be sanctions, and both parents would be invovled , i could not rely on one to let me off

basic ground rules went without saying, speaking with respect to your family members, honesty and being part of the team

i don't have evidence she is on cannabis but she has just taken up smoking 2 or 3 months ago and i find her behaviour a bit odd when she has been out~like last night she was way out of control~this could just be psychological i don't know
i do know she doesn't care about things anymore

Sorry - but it does sound like cannabis to me.

lulu that is similar to me
here everyone sleepsover after a party;if they aren't allowedto do that they don't want to go to the party
i'm fine with that in the sixth form but not now and not the way she is atm

maybe you need a day zero.

everything that has gone before has a line drawn under it

and oyu all start afresh

you have a family contract and all of you stick to it

and then let her earn back the right to go out to sleepovers etc

3~how did you find out? did you find some or just suspect?
it is very common round here;she says no but then she denies smoking and i know she does that

Nobody likes to be dictated to. Can you have some things to discuss and let her help you make the rules? If the boyfriend is a dropout druggy thief all the more reason to keep him close! Invite him for dinner, social occasions, get to know him and pretend you like him. If he's no good trust your daughter to see that. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer!!
I don't think going out on a school night is OK and I don't think I did as a teen either - maybe due to small village and needing lifts. We did as we pleased but we weren't allowed to "hang out" we could go to friends houses though.

That's the trick really, letting her "do as she pleases" but within your boundaries. If she won't listen/respect your boundaries she can't be trusted to do as she pleases.

I was a terrible teen drinking, smoking, sex, shoplifting etc - didn't want to get caught though so I wasn't! Passed all gcse's did A levels and went to uni.
Cannabis wasn't on the menu though, but I still didn't smoke it at uni, worried I'd get cannabis psychosis. It's really bad in teen years - have you spoken with her about it?
She has an interest - theatre so you can use this to your advantage. A busy teen is less likely to get into bother. Can you get her in a local group? Encourage her with autobiographies of actresses etc? So long as you have an aim in life you'll generally get through naughty teen years OK.

Where does she get the money to smoke? Whether it's cannabis or cigarettes, it costs money to smoke.

I think you need to sit down with her (and with dh if he will support you, but, if he's going to undermine you, it's better that he isn't there). Draw up a list of rules that you want to agree on. Perhaps start from a point of extreme control. That way, when she objects you can agree that they are a bit stringent and you can then be seen to "soften" a bit, and she will probably agree to what you want without realising that was your original goal. She just wants some input, not necessarily total control - she couldn't handle that and is hopefully bright enough to realise that.

Tell her that, if she agrees to these rules, you will trust her. If, however, you discover that she is lying about anything or she doesn't adhere to the rules, then you will have to be much more strict. It's her choice.

gg agree re nobody likes to be dictated to.Her previous friends have been good have had no previous reason to distrust her.Don't want to be unfair,but am not entirely sure what is fair atm

she already spends 4 after school sessions a week doing drama etc

she wants to move out partly so she can be overnight with her boyf and not be curtailed in any way really.

Rules;house
be polite and kind
tidy up after self
look after room

rules;her age 15
one stay out overnight per week;we know where.
locally not to hang out in dark outside so back at dark or have lift if at friends back 10.30 we know which friends
not to hang out with or go into houses of x or y.[local yobbos]
to come back for meals as much as possible

btw i have invited boyf over countless times she doesn't want him to come if he can't go in her room

she goes to friends overnight but i think she sees boyf that night sometimes i don't know where

i have asked about cannabis she says no but she says that about smoking and we know she does that

btw i have literally never heard her swear before 3 months ago since boyf and new gang on the scene

i have no idea who is giving her tobacco and she won't say

i would let the boyfriend over and let him in her room.. at least you know where they are!

have you discussed contraception with her?

she is nowhere near emotionally able to move out. she cannot look after herself if her response to not getting her own way is screaming and shouting

where does boyfriend live?

boyf is not allowed in her room
her big bro has girlf to stay he is nearly 18
If boy f was allowed to stay over next year at the earliest it would be if we knew him and it was steady~we've never even met this one