12 year old girl (friend of DD) having sex - what to do?

[PersephoneSnape]

Not quite sure what to do ? or how to handle this ? or whether to keep my nose out, so I really do appreciate any advice  And the person in question isn?t quite a teen, but is certainly acting likeone, so I?ve popped this in here.

My DD (13) is friends with a 12 year old girl (let?s call her girl A) who she met via mutual friends. Girl A is home schooled, so there isn?t an opportunity to talk to school about this (which would make things a bit easier for me) Girl A has brightly coloured hair, facial piercings, lots of make up - she?s tiny, but developing etc. She could easily pass for 16. I haven?t met girl As mum, but my DD does spend a fair amount of time at her house and sleeps over on occasion with some other girls. Until recently DD has been protective of her relationship with girl A and I have allowed her an amount of freedom that I deem appropriate, although she does occasionally try to stretch this. I?ve always thought that to put down my foot and be all ?you-can?t-see-girl-A she?s-a-bad-influence!? would just cement their friendship.

My DD has fallen out with Girl A over something silly and teenagey, and last night told me that Girl A has a 20+ year old bf ? a photographer (who my DD has met) photographer is friends with a band that he takes photos for and Girl A has slept with 2 boys from the band (both in their very late teens or early 20s) DD is absolutely disgusted and assures me that she finds this really awful and won?t be doing what Girl A does, just because girl A does it. DD is very sensible ? my main concern is girl A. Her parents have broken up very recently, she has had a hard time of it, but her reactions seem to be drinking, smoking and now, apparently having sex.

Should I talk to her mum, who?ve I haven?t met before (hi! I?m DDs mum, your daughter is having sex?), talk to the police, find the boys in the band on myspace (?) and tell them how old girl A is, or keep my nose well out. Would you like to know if your tear-a-way 12 year old was having sex? Or is it all talk/bragging and trying to look important and grown up ( Girl A can spin some amazing tales)

What would mumsnet do?

Can I just point out that child A buying and (incorrectly) using a PG test does not prove that she is having sex, unprotected or otherwise. It just means she bought a test and tried to use it.

That could mean she is being abused or it could mean that sheis trying to substantiate a lie to her friends.

If you go to the mother then you become directly involved, you are the middle person and you risk being attacked by the Mother, the child, the childs friends and the men being accused. Not a position I would be happy with if I were you.

With regard to the men being accused, either there is no way they have ever been in a position to have had sex with child A - in which case they are in the clear or they have been in that position but have done nothing, in which case they will learn a very valuable lesson about ensuring they protect themselves by behaving appropriatly around children. The final option is that it is true and they deserve everything they get.

Go to SS, tell them the facts, allow them to speak to dd if they wish to to get as much information as they can and leave them to deal with it - it is their job after all!

I agree- something needs to be done, and going to the mother just leaves you in the firing line. SS are best-placed to help her, whether she is having sex or crying wolf because she is troubled.

I would appraoch the mother first as well.
If SS come down on them and none of it is true, you may call all sorts of hassle for the girl, the family and the members of the band.
But of course you need to do something appropriate just in case it is true.

There may be another way to talk to someone appropriate about this PersephoneSnape
Can you contact me via our local home education group contact link [email protected]
Any message will come straight to my inbox-you need only tell me you are PersephoneSnape and I will email you back with a suggestion of who to take this to.

King, IMHO, persephone will put herself more in the "firing line" as you put it, if she goes straight to the authorities

not everyone thinks rationally, she could possibly be seen just as a "snitch" and reprisals could occur (talking worst-case scenario here)

persephone, this thread is going to frighten and immobilize you even further

do something (anything) about it, before you freeze and lose your nerve

doing nothing is not an option, that much is agreed upon

AF, I disagree about who to contact, but I do, wholeheartedly agree that something should be done to help this child. As BOF said, even if she is just having a hard time and feels the need to lie, she does need help.

Agree with the thoughtful reasoning of KingCanute & AnarchyAunt's insights are useful too.

You were asking earlier whether it would be worth getting advice from dd's school and I can pretty much guess their answer: if this concerned a school student of ours then SS would be informed and they would contact the home.

Whether the girl is being abused or she is fantasising, there is no information here to suggest she is not loved by her family. Maybe the mum will want to go the police or social services. Either way undermining her as the most significant person in her DDs life will most likely not benefit the child.

Anyfucker - absolutely we have no idea how the girl is parented.

But I think its important to recognise that there are parents out there who do not share the view that this is completely inappropriate for a 12yo. Its not that these are abusive parents, or that they are not pleasant enough to speak to. But they do exist.

The man I knew would have most probably been polite enough and even tried his hardest to look and sound concerned had anyone from 'outside' spoken to him. But it would have been a big joke afterwards for him.

I agree it could cause trouble for all those involved and I don't know what the best way to handle it is either. But something does need to be said to someone.

Hi - I have name changed to post on this thread, but I am a regular, I just don't want to get into all of this in my normal name.

I was having sex from a very early age and at 12 had already had sex with a few guys. I really really really wish that someone had said something to my mum and dad. Because no-one said anything and I carried on, I went really really off the rails, suicide attempts, some drugs, lots and lots of guys.

As a grown woman now sorted after a lot of therapy I can look back and see that this was a lot of guys taking advantage of a very young and immature girl.

Please please say something to the mother for starters. If she blanks you, find someone else. You could well be saving this child from something terrible.

Persephone: I think that you are to be commended fo your concern for Girl A.
However, can I ask about your own DD? Why did she tell you about this? Is she expecting you to talk to the authorities or will she feel that you are breaking confidences? I'm just worried that your relationship with your own DD may be damaged and she won't share secrets in the future.

Oh I so agree, persephone. Don't forget you are setting the tone here as a role model for your own DD and you are going to have to justify yourself to her. Make sure she knows that if the boot was on the other foot you will do what you wish would be done to you in similar circumstances ie YOU would be given the opportunity to parent her in the most appropriate way. Imagine how hard this would be if someone approached you with this info. The poor woman may not have the support you have had here to think what to do next, but you can offer to help in whatever way you can. That includes taking the brunt of her anguish if needs be. You may have to develop broad shoulders but whats the alternative - let your DD see you bottle it for an easy life, or have a kneejerk reaction that would put her off confiding with you on any other matter?

what does your dd think about you talking to girl As mum?

if you go to ss will your dd suffer any backlash?

try to talk to mum first, she is being judged for doing HE, for allowing her dd to have piercings and pink hair, she may well be very reasonable and very approachable,

your gut instint must be ok as you let your dd stay over at her house,

not an easy situation, i really hope you can find a way to try and help girl A without upsettting your own dd,

i would want to know if my dd was in trouble,

I may be being a bit blind here as am not the parent to a 12yr old dd (yet) and happy to have the obvious explained, but why does PersephoneSnape have to tell her dd anything about whatever action she takes? It's an adult decision about a serious problem, do you really lay that on a 12yr old?

Lessonlearned

Words fail me!

I wrote a very long and angry post there but deleted it on the grounds that anyone who thinks that choosing between Police SS and NSPCC is having a kneejerk reaction or the taking easy way out in a situation like this is unlikley to have much to say that makes sense.

Probably should have deleted that too but hey-ho.

I agree, Heated. That's another reason to let the appropriate authorities deal with it IMO. This doesn't need to be personal, it's just what you would do as a teacher or youth worker and had become aware of this issue.

If she was at school I would talk to them.

As she isn't I would call Social Services immediately.

It's not remotely personal, it's just what a teacher/youth worker/anyone who worked with children is compelled to do when it comes to matters of child protection.

Hopefully she is not doing anything or having anything inappropriate done to her.

Not a problem canute. There's no easy answers her, like you I'm just giving an oppinion in the hope it helps the OP in a very delicate position. I don't mind in the least if someone has other ideas.

i am in no way saying lay it on a 12 year old,

i am just saying, and i may be wrong, but, if my dd, at 12 was mature enough to know what these men are doing is was wrong, and she came to me in confidence about her friend then i would hope i could explain to her that she was right to come to me, and that she should always come to me if she is worried or concerned about anything to do with either herself or her friends,

what worries me is if PS make a decision to call social services and does not tell/explain to her dd why she has taken such action, what if girl A confronts PSdd and PSdd has no idea,

she may, just may feel like her mum has betrayed her trust and it may have longer standing issues for PS and her DD in the future,

i absolutly agree PS needs to do something, either talk to mum, ss, the police, whatever, but not to let her dd feel that she has 'gone behind her back'

PS, i really hope you find a solution soon,

I'd ring the NSPCC for advice on this as opinion is so divided here.

FWIW I work in childcare and we are advised that in the event of us thinking that for any reason it would be inappropriate to tell the parent of any concerns of abuse then we are to approach the authorities without telling the parents.

I think ringing the NSPCC is probably the best idea, as well. ALso, WRT to the young men this girl may or may not have had sex with: if they are 18/19 they might well believe that a girl with pink hair and facial piercings is 16 if she claims to be that age and demonizing them as child-rapists may be excessive and damaging all round (whatever the actual situation, for this girl to see people she thought of as friends arrested or imprisoned is going to be traumatizing for her if her relationship with them was, in her opinion, consenting).

solidgoldsoddingjanuaryagain - but if this does turn out to be true the law WILL demonsize them like that. Ignorance is no defence.

The photographer boyfriend is just as worrying a presence in the whole scenario IMO.

It is statutary rape SGB if they are having sex with her when she is underage.
It's the AGE that makes it Statutory Rape (a criminal act) not the intention or beliefs of the men.
The law is there to protect children under the age of 16, and also to protect those over the age of 16.

I would not tell the mother of this girl first PS, especially as you say she's in the midst of a messy separation, I would just tell SS or the police.

You can ring them anonymously and you won't be in the "Firing line", or branded as a "snitch" - for goodness sake - that's what the police and SS are for - to investigate possible abuses and to set Justice and Care in motion.

I think you do have to act, since you have this information, and it will highlight to your own DD that her childhood and safety is worth fighting for, and there are agencies who's sole purpose is to protect and serve.

Pennies: my understanding of the law is that it would be possible for the police to decide that it was not in the public interest to prosecute in a case of underage sex where both parties are teenagers and the sex was consensual.
The photographer boyfriend may also believe that the girl is 16 BTW.

Solidgold, my understanding is that if the child is under 13 this is statutory rape. Most peddos are more than aware of this and use the line that "I thought she was...." The key here is will the police get the evidence they need? The reason to go gently here is so the child feels they are going to be supported to give the best evidence they can if an offence has been commited and will they get all the support they deserve?