Help? Need brutal honest advice.

[Chel14]

Daughter is 14.

just us for 10 years. Good life.

i was in abusive relationship, destroyed me, her, us. Changed our life.

long story short, I was in mental hospital, she had to stay with maternal grandmother, when we reconnected I wasn’t me. She didn’t receive the same love affection care effort as before.

•appreciate massively how fucking horrific this must have been for a 10 year old. Do not diminish this statement•

however

2 years, 1 relationship, mounds of professionals throwing help her way, school transfers, allowance of poor behaviour, to extreme levels later, I am unable to cope. She is literally ruining any remaining salvageable part of our relationship, ruining her entire life, ruining my relationship with my genuine love of my life, any chance she or I have at happiness. Can’t even ask how did ur day go without it ending in literal tears on my part because of the hatred, brutality and lack of respect or empathy for anyone she displays!
she treats everyone and everyone like less than, unworthy pieces of shit! Treats my partners children like shit, has recorded herself talking to teachers in school in a way I am still shocked about. Complete lack of any good quality right now. No joke. It’s THAT bad. Wish I could tell you it all.

caught her on FaceTime vaping once. Still denies it to this day. I saw it? Close enough to see the flavour? Still denies to my face.

we live alone. Things will go missing or be left out and she will try manipulate my mental health to make me believe it has nothing to do with her. It is scary. Makes up stories to other people that are nowhere near true. Scary.

i recovered so well. Went back to college, got a job. New relationship. New lease on life. Not me again, but better.

she is driving me into the ground. Hates me. Accepts to me it wasn’t my fault what happened in that relationship. Admits she has resentment towards me for various acceptable reasons ie lack of effort when seriously unwell, emotional outbursts etc. understandable. However says it isn’t our fault and doesn’t blame me?

she has adhd (on diagnosis pathway) and what I truly believe to be ODD, possible BPD (I have this)

I have exhausted every avenue tried every approach repeated everything for months day in day out 45 minute deep hearted chats before school she seems to take in. She returns that day from being suspended, to then after 2 hours - be suspended! So what was that mornings heart felt chat and agreement about?

I cannot do it anymore. I have no help.
dad useless. No1 to take her. Social are involved however they have not much advice to help in the immediate future other than wait 16 weeks for a measly parenting course and nowhere to even temporarily accommodate her as even a worst case.

someone please give me realistic advice.

I am not joking when I say I don’t know if I’ll survive this.
everyone who truly knows her agrees she is unbelievable. Deceitful. Has no empathy. Doesn’t care for consequences. Manipulates. Will use my mental health against me eg if I’m talking to her about something she’s done and she doesn’t want to admit it or is trying to twist how it happened she will say so calmly and seeming concerned ‘mum have you took your meds today? Are you ok I’m worried your going insane’

please hear the desperation of how severe this is. If needed I will give more examples. Just please need help.

im afraid for my life and afraid she’s ruined her own.

I am begging for help.

I was in a similar situation. She's abusing you. If it escalates don't feel shame contacting social services/seeking a placement for her

Praying for you xx you've worked so hard. She's having a reasonably hard time adjusting but it's not an excuse for her behaviour

As someone with a lot of BPD/EUPD symptoms myself, please give yourself some grace with this thread. PPs have made a lot of very solid points, and I agree with almost all of them, but I can also see that these comments seem to be hitting you very personally and I know that can be a very difficult and even dangerous feeling for someone with BPD/EUPD. You're expressing very strong black-and-white feelings about your DD, your partner, and yourself and I don't think this thread is helping to combat that.

So, I just want to remind you that you are not bad, selfish, or hurtful. It sounds like you have made some selfish and potentially hurtful decisions because of the intensity of your feelings, but it's really good that you're trying to make better choices and rebuild your relationship with your DD. Your DD is not selfish or evil either, she's a traumatised child who doesn't know how to react to this situation. That situation, the abuse and the instability, has greatly affected both of you, and you're both doing your best to get through it. You seem to feel you've found a life ring in your partner, but your DD won't be able to see it that way. She has no such life ring to cling to right now, and from her perspective your partner is less of a saving grace and instead a potential shark in already very turbulent water.

I would recommend accessing DBT if you can, as that particular therapy model is designed with BPD/EUPD in mind and many people find it incredibly helpful. I think the most important thing you can do right now is to be stable and safe for your DD, and regardless of your romantic relationship or any other factors I think BPD-specific therapy would be the best way to achieve that right now and moderate some of those extreme feelings. If your DD will engage with any trauma therapy that could of course be very helpful to her, but not as helpful as having her Mum safe and stable; helping yourself will allow you to help her to the best of your ability.

Yes.

sorry, but yes.

your daughter needs someone who is there for her day after day after day.

she needs you to show her that you can put her first.

words mean nothing. By having a relationship with this man you are demonstrating by your actions that she is less important to you.

you can have “the love of your life”. But you can’t have him and your daughter at the same time.

please choose her.

What does she do in the evenings? Does she have hobbies and play sports to build her self esteem or does she just sit in her room on a phone all evening? All teenage girls need to actively build their self esteem, especially ones who’ve experienced trauma. You might find when she builds herself up and has things to be proud of that the behaviour improves.

I'm sorry OP but I have to agree with previous posters

What you feel you are expressing and putting into writing is not at all the way your posts are coming across. Your writing does sound histrionic and misguided - hallmarks of your mental health condition. This is not your fault of course, the same way you struggling to walk with a broken leg wouldn't be your fault as it is a health matter. The key to helping your daughter get back on track is actually to seek help for yourself. Her behaviour is a direct response to her environment. Let her see YOU being the role model and getting help when it's needed.

To be clear - This is entirely unrelated to the bloke.

Can you daughter go back to her grandmas? It sounds like she was safer and happier there .

the issue isn’t your man or ex man. It’s you , and I’m not saying you’re the reason, but what happened to you has caused this. She is scared, traumatised and angry. She’s angry at the animal that did this to you and the fact she was taken away from her little bubble with you. She’s also lashing out because she’s bloody terrified you will get ill again and she’ll be taken away so is punishing you rather then opening up her heart and getting hurt again.

she is full of hormones and as a child that’s been there she wants her mum all to herself and obviously you have a new partner who has kids. In her eyes she’s worried will take you away or hurt you like the other one did.

she needs time away from you and heavy therapy to even repair your relationship. I think you do too.

@Chel14 quite frankly from what I can see is that you are the root cause of this behaviour yet you blame dd who is 14 years old.
The centre of your life is you, not your dd despite your protestations.
Sort yourself out.

I’ve had a phone call like this before - different age, different circumstances but what you’ve said has really resonated. I’m so sorry this happened to you.

@Chel14 kindly I understand you have pushed through for her, but she would have been incredibly traumatised by the whole thing and experience intense shame and fear about her future.

Focus on her, not on any men, go to therapy together, look up Childhood Emotional Neglect and see the effect it has had on her.

You are obsessed with a type of life that doesn’t exist. I bet you felt the same about the last one too.

Focus on your daughter

your expecting her to be able to go back to the person she was before this all happened, the person she was when she was 10, she won't ever be that person again just like you won't ever be that same person either. You're expecting her to be able to accept you for who you are now but you aren't willing to do the same for her. She isn't evil, spoilt or trying to ruin your new relationship, You have both experienced severe trauma, her at a critical time of development, so of course she cannot be expected to just come back from that, her behaviour is all completely normal for what she has gone through.

You sound like a lovesick teenage girl with your references to the 'love of your life' and 'your soulmate'. He is just another random man to your daughter who has experienced absolute trauma due to your relationship choices. Why on earth would she love him?

It is very telling that you refer to her as being 'spoilt rotten'. You seem totally unable to put yourself in your daughter's shoes. Your declarations of love for her are performative and don't come across as genuine or real. You are seeking permission from Mumsnet posters to put your relationship with your 'soulmate' above your relationship with your daughter. You aren't going to get that permission.

It sounds like your daughter has complex trauma.

Things that may help:

Ask amongst the professionals engaged in supporting her whether they have specific and deep understanding and experience of trauma - if not, request that someone is found who does and who can lead/training the others to develop a holistic support plan for her. Is there a TAC in place (Team Around the Child)?

Your daughter requires a graduated support plan towards a full mental health assessment. As she is unable to trust anyone enough to feel safe to engage, a professional with trauma experience will be needed to slowly build a relationship with her on her terms and likely not in a clinic or home situation with a long term view to handholding her towards an assessment. What is CAMHS doing for her?

Get a copy of the A to Z of Therapeutic Parenting by Sarah Naish. This book lists behaviours and then the likely cause/meaning with practical suggestions of how to support. Remember, ALL behaviour is communication. Your lovely girl is communicating very, very, very clearly how distressed and unsafe she feels: she's not being evil, she's trying to survive.

Read as much as you can about trauma so you can better understand how it changes the brain and so you can remain objective and able to help her rather than triggered. You would likely find it useful to better understand your own diagnoses too and how they affect your own emotional regulation and responses: it may be that your own needs are such that you are not in a place where you can help her feel safer.

Have you had an assessment from social services to look at support for the family - by family I mean just you and her? If not, this could be useful.

When was the last time you had a mental health review for yourself so you can talk through your own symptoms, relationships, etc? Getting better support for yourself may be key to having enough inner resource to care for your daughter effectively - you sound overwhelmed, understandably, and you need help as much as she does.

Look at resources from organisations such as Newbold Hope to gain practical advice and support around her trauma-driven distress behaviours. Learn about Therapeutic Parenting, which will be vital to help you reframe her behaviour, identify her needs, and support her effectively. Her trauma, and yours, has been years in the making, it will take years to get it different: no quick fixes or magic wands. There are some great Therapeutic Parenting support groups on social media, and the National Association of Therapeutic Patents also has a helpline plus online and face-to-face listening circles for parents/carers.

The more you understand your own needs and trauma, and the more you understand hers, the more you're likely to be able to find a way through this together and make the decisions that are truly in both your best interests.

She wants me to herself - yes she does and isn't that understandable? All she's been through because of your BPD and relationships have totally destroyed her. She needs you to step up.
Maybe when your daughter is older and perhaps has a man in her life herself, she will understand you better and then you can focus on your own love life.

Op as well all of the shit she went through she’s also a teenager. Had your life not taken the awful turn it did you would still be dealing with hormones and moods and a small proportion of this. As well as this Some of the stuff could be gaslighting but it also could be that she believes it. (You said you’d buried some stuff, maybe she wrongly thinks you’ve issues she’s worried about). The activities you want to do with her as a parent sound good. I think your other ‘she’s evil’ mindset needs to change, she can probably sense you think this. I’m so sorry I’m not helping but just laying it out so you can see what we do x

There have been multiple brilliant replies from people in the mental health/ childcare field with steps to take. Try those.

Also questions on the timeline as it very much reads like this happened in 2 years, not 4. And even if it was 4 years- you cannot expect her to be ok after what happened to you (and her!) in 4 years. Shes not a light switch. She is also a teenager. But not a regular teenager, one who’s world imploded at one of the most vulnerable moments in her childhood.

No one cares about the man son stories, if he loves you he’ll wait.

You said about tidying her room / dinner etc. I think a lot of these issue are typical teenage issues (coupled with her trauma). She needs boundaries - this is dinner. Get her involved- what do you want to eat this week, let’s go shopping together/ you can choose etc. Give her pocket money to tidy her room. Book something nice every month to do together. Regardless of her behaviour. She doesn’t need the strong arm right now, she needs the loving arm.

Yet you said she makes his children’s lives hell?

You seem to say whatever gets you the most sympathy and makes your dd sound bad.

I can’t get past you calling your own dd ‘evil’, when she’s clearly very unhappy.

And please respect when I say the entire relationship is being done in a way which most benefits her.

How does it benefit her?

There has been no mention of your daughter's dad. Does she see him? I'm assuming not, as otherwise he would have been the obvious person to care for her when you were admitted to hospital.

That makes me think that your judgement when entering a new relationship isn't really to be trusted. You mention an abusive ex-partner. How did that affect your daughter? Was he abusive to her? Based on your previous relationship choices, your daughter is being perfectly reasonable to be suspicious of your new relationship with the 'perfect' man. I'm sure your previous relationships were great until they weren't.

Your declarations that you will sacrifice the 'love of your life' to appease your daughter sound insincere and performative. You sound very much like a sulky teenager yourself with your 'I've done what you asked, are you happy now?' about ending the relationship with your perfect partner who loves your daughter 'to bits'. I doubt that is true btw. It's obvious that you are finding it hard to love your daughter at the moment. He is clearly just telling you what you want to hear.

Bingo. OP has totally idealized this man (apparently a common trait of EUPD) and has this fantasy where if her daughter just accepts him they'll all live happily ever after. It really seems like she has no intention of breaking it off. Honestly it sounds like a terrible disorder for the sufferer but just from what little I've heard about it, I know it's VERY hard for others to be around too. Can't even imagine a kid dealing with it.

I think there is a problem here (well there are lots) if she manages a good day at school, well done. Full stop.

I'm proud of you. Full stop.

The way you are saying to continue comes across (to a troubled teenager) as nothing she does is ever good enough. It might be really hard for her to have a good day at school, she puts a lot of effort in and manages it and then you are not satisfied.

She is teaming with hormones, has had a really rough time has lost in sequence her father, then her mother and then the grand parent who took her in, then her mother is back, but not the same as she was, now mother has a new love. She is waiting to be abandoned again.

I don't think she feels she deserves love and respect and this comes out as disrespect to others.

I know this looks like a harsh post, I'm trying to get you to think like a damaged teenager struggling with life.

Definitely do the parenting course. You yourself have said you don’t understand why she is like this, but a very basic thing to understand is that 14 is a very difficult age in itself. I would advise doing some research on this to help you understand.

I have to agree with a PP that I would be suspicious of your new partner tbh and his genuine intentions for you. You sound incredibly vulnerable and mentally unstable from the way you write your posts and your attitude, so I have to question whether this man is taking advantage of you and you can’t see it.

The way you describe your daughter is awful. But yes I agree it is also you that needs help and to work on yourself. The fact that you mentioned you were considering more babies is horrifying to be honest. You sound in no way able to cope.

Please be serious about getting yourself some further counselling. I feel really sorry for your daughter and i’m not surprised in any way that she is acting like this.

This

Before she had recovered, before your relationship recovered, she reached you start a relationship.

She may be scared, feel abandoned. And is working towards a self fulfilling prophecy rather than feel out of control.

She had no control with an abusive man in your life, when she lost you to your MH crisis, and now she sees you taken away from her again by ‘the love of your life’.

I’m not saying you can’t have a relationship but it has been a roller coaster over her adolescence and puberty, such a tricky age.

OK so I work with young people who behave similarly to your daughter. There isn’t really generic advice, as it depends on the young person, but giving space, not sweating the small stuff, and ensuring the relationship is prioritised can help. Boundaries can help reduce anxiety but need to be chosen carefully. It sounds like she is communicating loud and clear that she can’t cope with you being in a relationship with anyone, however great you think they are - so that’s a choice for you to make.

Have you had access to DBT? (Dialectical Behaviour Therapy - mentioned by other posters as well). It has good evidence for being effective for people with BPD and can help people manage emotions more effectively. Who diagnosed you with BPD? They may know how to access DBT, or it would be worth talking to your GP. It would be wise to explore options locally for DBT given you are struggling. It is a commitment as it’s usually provided as part of a group taking place over an number of months and in some areas they encourage you to do it twice, so you can really embed the skills they teach. It may make life easier for you if you can get some of the skills under your belt. I have heard good things from people who have completed DBT as well.

Good luck!

OP, it is absolutely imperative that you seek help for your personality disorder. You must be in ongoing treatment for this because the symptoms and traits of your EUPD are oozing out of every post you make. It is not under control and it is colouring your every thought and decision.

Were you under a psychologist following being sectioned? You’re cagey about the support you have, so I’m guessing you are not in any treatment or therapy currently. Did you stop going because you met the new man and they advised against the relationship? It’s surprisingly common for EUPD patients to quit engaging with their support because they want to enter a relationship against professional advice.

There is no quick fix. It will take time for your daughter to trust you again and feel safe. Until then you need to be consistent, set boundaries, and step up. The next couple of years will determine her outcomes in life so she needs support.

you can also find some time for yourself but you do seem to be invested in the idea of a life with this man and even the possibility of more children? If I was your daughter I would find this very unsettling.