Overheard ds's inappropriate conversation with friend

[blubberball]

DS is 14 and neuro divergent. He's quite immature for his age, and is like a younger child in his manner. I usually hear him talk to his friend about games, but last night I overheard him say to his friend on the phone "How many times did your dick go hard whilst you were talking to her?" I was a bit shocked to hear him talking to his friend like that, so I told him to say bye to his friend. It was time for his screens to go off any way, and I take his technology every night and lock it away. He seemed a bit mortified that I'd heard him say that, and cleaned his teeth and went straight to bed. He usually faffs around for an hour after screens off. I told him not to ask his friend that. A little while later, I went into his room to talk about misogyny. He didn't know what it was. I told him it's treating women and girls badly, and I said that girls aren't objects. He was embarrassed and just wanted to go to sleep. He was turned away and didn't want to talk. I thought it was important to say something.

Is this just a normal thing for teenage boys to say to their mates? I don't want him to feel shame about normal feelings of being attracted to the opposite sex, and erections. But I also want to protect girls from this attitude from boys. How do I manage this going forward? I'm planning on having more little conversations about misogyny now and then. Does anyone please have any experience with this?

Imagine your post reversed but a boy talking about periods…

Teenage boys get uncontrollable erections- it’s not about you or your body but a natural part of their body’s development.

I hear that comment as teenage boys razzing each other because they have incomplete control over their emotions and desires and they like to confront that. The cool lad would reply (in cool words) "I'm in control of my body and I'm not vulnerable to emotions so didn't happen to me."

I don't hear it as the girl = object to be exploited.

You're going to horrified to hear that they can get erections from simply thinking about girls/women...

😱

i think in this instance you have to separate out the inappropriate nature of the conversation he was having with his friend from the wider context of his views on women/girls.

Yes boys talk about this stuff, more openly that women i feel, so talking about sexual feelings/erections and how girls make them feel is 'normal'.. it was perhaps just a touch inappropriate with the age of the other boy.

The issue here is the language and perhaps the attitude towards the girl in question. It needs to be made clear that talking about sex with friends isn't so much the issue (if perhaps not the best conversation at their age) but that they reduced the girl they were talking about to a sexual object, and dehumanised her in the process.

That is where you can segue into having a conversation about respect, consent...etc

To be fair, you'd likely have been oblivious to it.

We certainly weren't wandering around school with a tent in our trousers. Anyone becoming aware of it would have opened us up to ridicule, so we got very good at hiding it. Lessons were easy, there's a desk in the way. The rest of the time it's legs loosely crossed, hands in our lap. A dead giveaway to all the other boys, but I think we generally got away with it with girls.

I feel sorry for your son. It sounds like he was taking the piss out of his friend for fancying a girl. You have jumped to conclusions assuming he’s a potential misogynist and given him a lecture. No wonder he just wanted to be left alone.

Brilliant post by that chap upthread.

OP I think that the issue here is your own experience of abuse which is making you clamp down on the slightest thing where you think boys are 'abusing' a girl.

But also the fact your son is immature and it's come as a shock to realise he has sexual feelings and responses.

If you haven't already found them, wait for mountains of tissues under the bed etc from masturbating or hours spent in the loo!

It's hard to appreciate our kids have sexual feelings and (eventually) sex lives of their own. But it's a learning curve for all parents. You risk making this far more than it was and making him feel ashamed and 'dirty' by his banter. Also, if he IS immature, this kind of banter with his mate may give him (in his eyes) some 'street cred' where he's part of the 'tribe'. Don't be over protective.

Do you, or anyone on this thread, not remember the rowers winning something in the London olympics and while Princess Anne was given out medals most or all of them had erections. Not because they sex pests but because thats the nature of a body and what it does sometimes.

( I cant remember the exact details, might not have been rowing exactly, something like that)

The issue here is the language and perhaps the attitude towards the girl in question. It needs to be made clear that talking about sex with friends isn't so much the issue (if perhaps not the best conversation at their age) but that they reduced the girl they were talking about to a sexual object, and dehumanised her in the process.

That's one massive jump!

How on earth do you get there?

They did not reduce the girl to a sexual object. They were discussing their attraction or their sexual responses to her.

If you really believe what you've posted, then all relationships start with women or men being sexual objects, because sexual and physical attraction is usually the start of all relationships.

Its not considered normal. It IS normal.

It definitely wasn't my intention to shame him or humiliate him as an educational tool. My reaction was knee jerk and panic, because I didn't know who he was talking to. I can certainly apologise to him for my alarmed response, and say You know what, I was wrong to react that way, and I'm sorry that I embarrassed you.....

And now let's talk about having respect for women and girls

The photograph of them in the podium is still in my head! I think it was one man actually. Who knew P Anne had that effect?!

Years ago my Mum's friend went to see Hair and talked of nothing else afterwards other than one actor who had an erection on stage.

And also, it's very normal for boys your age to have feelings for people, and get erections. There's no shame in that. It's a normal thing that every young man goes through

But why are you still banging on about that, why are you conflating the situations?

It should be 'now lets talk about how to engage with your friends so that you have really good relationships with them'

I think there are some very good posts here, particularly by @VimesandhisCardboardBoots .

You're obviously right to be concerned, @blubberball - It's a difficult time for the parents and the kids and your own experience has shown you how wrong it can go. However the fine line between your son being Jay from the Inbetweeners or a respectful young man is tone really, and none of us can know what sort of tone he used. Yes, obviously teenage boys are going to have laddish banter and discuss girls, sex etc. However there's a way to do that without dehumanising the opposite sex, there are limits. Only you know your son and what his attitudes are likely to be. Either you've pushed too hard here and risk him putting up barriers or you've spotted something in him lately that's concerning and you're right to start looking for ways to handle it. It's a rare teenage boy who can comfortably discuss these things with his mother the same way he can with friends. You say his father's not an option as a role model but mention your own brothers and an older son and that their attitude towards women is good. Maybe he should be spending some time with them? If you can tell them about what happened maybe they can do some damage limitation and suss out a bit the direction he's heading in.

Probably you jumped in a bit too quick but it's hard to find the perfect response when you're put on the spot and what's done is done. He's unlikely to turn into Andrew Tate or Donald Trump with a mother who is actively parenting that out of him and apparently good role models in his family.

I really wouldnt link the women/girls chat op. Keep that completely separate for another time. Its not connected.

Oh please dont 😩

In what context would you talk about having respect?
I don't think you can dictate 'respect' and may do more harm.

I am not aware that my son (now 40) had any such discussions - certainly not with me or his dad. He's happily married and is very switched on emotionally.

If your son is an immature 14 year old, he is far too young to have these kind of conversations because he won't have the emotional capacity to connect.

What you should do is encourage him to have a wide circle of friends, including girls, so he gets to know girls as people, not just someone to have sex with. Tell him he's welcome to bring friends home including girls.

Stop thinking of girls as potential victims. Girls mess around with boys' emotions too- it's not a one-way street. The only thing he needs to learn is not to be forced to do something he's not comfortable with and neither should he persuade or force a girl into anything.

I’m really not convinced this attitude you seem to have that your DS is going to end up abusing women unless you constantly lecture him is actually based on evidence or at all helpful.

Do other people not check on their kids? Would they really just walk past their 14 yo's bedroom door, hear an explicit sexual conversation and not check in with them? Or would you think that's just fine and leave them to their private conversation, when you don't know who they're talking to? I thought we were supposed to check on our kids? I only went there to tell him it's time for screens off

Have not read through the full post but you have probably made him feel ashamed,boys talk about this sort of stuff, getting an erection at his age is normal and you have probably made him feel like shit giving him a lecture on something that has nothing to do with it.

Yes agreed.

You are conflating two separate things.
Talking about erections and arousal is not the same as objectifying women.
How you made that leap is anyone's guess, but you were wrong to chastise him in my opinion. And you embarrassed him.

We've had friends over, including girlfriends. Admittedly I keep a close eye when they go upstairs to his room together. He has a girlfriend, but the mum isn't happy about it and won't allow them to socialise outside school

Sadly @BeachLife2 when you have been in an abusive relationship with the boy's father this is exactly where your mind goes...you don't want to think about that happening but you can't help it, because abusive behaviour is a learned pattern that goes down through the generations in families until someone stops it...by leaving the man and educating his children to behave better.

I'm not sure constant lecturing is what's going on, but I know the tightrope that @blubberball walks...it's my biggest fear that DS will end up like his dad, and knowing when to say something to help prevent that, or when to keep my mouth shut, are a regular challenge. Seeing it discussed on here has helped me realise that I too sometimes jump too fast (in my own mind, not always out loud), and that has helped me and will hopeful help OP as well.