DD(17) pregnant again with the same useless dad

[StrugglingNannyNan]

First time posting, long time lurker. Just need to let this all out because I feel like I’m losing it.

DD is 17 and had her little boy nearly 11 months ago. She’s back at college, doing well considering everything, and I’m really proud of her for sticking it out. But she’s just told me she’s pregnant again. And it’s by the same boy who’s 16 now and still completely useless.

Bit of backstory. They were together when she was 15. He’s a few months younger, December born, so he was the year below her in school. They were together for about 6 months. Then he left her, blocked her when she told him she was pregnant, and moved on with someone else. She didn’t tell me until she was around 5 months gone. He popped back up after the baby was born saying he wanted to be involved, and eventually they got back together properly.

He’s been in foster care most of his life and there’s always something going on. DD constantly defends him, saying he’s struggling mentally and that he’s a “good dad really,” but he’s not. He stopped smoking weed for a while after the baby was born, but he’s back on it now. I’ve got a strong feeling he might be dealing. He gives DD money and he’s not working or in college. Just sat his GCSEs and didn’t revise at all. Said it was pointless and barely turned up half the time.

He’s not capable of basic parenting. Can’t change a nappy properly even though DD’s shown him loads of times. He doesn’t know what the baby eats or when he naps. A couple of weeks ago the baby fell off the sofa while he was supposed to be watching him. He’d gone outside to vape. I completely lost my rag. I shouted at him, properly shouted, and he just stood there looking at the floor. Didn’t say a single word. Not even sorry.

The hardest bit is the baby absolutely adores him. Always smiling at him, lights up when he walks in, wants to be around him. And when he’s holding him, he looks like a proper dad. But the second he needs something, or starts crying, or needs changing, he passes him off. It’s me or DD who do the actual parenting.

His foster carers are trying their best but you can tell they’re at the end of their rope. They’ve said he lies, smokes too much, doesn’t clean up after himself, won’t listen. Social services are involved with both households. Ours have already raised concerns about him being around the baby unsupervised, especially now that the weed’s back. But DD plays it all down. I don’t think they even know how much he’s actually around.

Now this pregnancy. DD was supposed to be on the pill. She says she messed it up. She’s only a few weeks, but I just feel sick. She hasn’t told him yet. Says he’ll freak out and she can’t deal with it. And honestly, I don’t think he’ll step up. He didn’t the first time and I can’t see him suddenly changing now. I know I’ll be the one holding it all together again while he just floats through doing the bare minimum and being praised for it.

I love my daughter and my grandson more than anything. But I’m tired. I feel like I’m watching her tie herself to a life that’s going to make everything ten times harder. And I don’t know how to help without pushing her closer to him.

Yes this.

100%. It's not ideal, but the OP can't make her DD have an abortion.

It does not have to be a disaster, even though it seems this way.

I completely agree with this. I would be beyond fuming with my DD if she failed to protect herself again. Your DD alone has put herself in this situation. She knew she couldn’t rely on her BF but yet she carried on and managed to get herself pregnant by him a second time.

If I were in your situation I would tell her that I will support her through a termination but if she is planning on keeping the pregnancy then she needs to move out and fend for herself.

Oh OP I can imagine how troubling this whole thing is for you.

She is already tied to this guy forever so her having another baby with him won’t change/worsen that. I suppose it’s preferable that it’s the same father, if anything.

You are (understandably) very critical of this lad and his irresponsible behaviour, however, I’d lower your expectations of him. This is a baby he conceived at 14 years old. He’s in foster care. He likely hasn’t had good, responsible parenting modelled to him. What does “stepping up” look like to a 16 year old boy? It’s a wonder your daughter is doing such a good job as even though she clearly has a good parent, she’s still so young herself and motherhood is bloody challenging (as lovely as it is!)

I’m surprised at the comments suggesting you encourage an abortion. I’d absolutely highlight that it’s an option for her, but wouldn’t encourage her either way.

If I were you and she continues with the pregnancy I’d start having conversations with her about her plans post-college. She needs to start envisioning where she will live, where she will work etc. The complicating factor is that the dad can’t have the kids unsupervised and if she moves out you won’t have any oversight into how they are being looked after.

How do you force someone to have an abortion? And if she was pressured into it but you not think that might have consequences?

The dad is a child himself.
What support have the parents had so far with 11 month old?
Did they do an antenatal course?
Have they been offered parenting advice, courses etc though the maternity service or social care?
Presumably social services are involved, but perhaps with extra support your DD and the father can do a bit better. Can they request any of this if it hasn't already happened?
Obviously she has options - but just wanted to ask those questions before jumping to termination. And even if she does go down that route the above would maybe still help, with her 1st baby and getting more help from dad.

Presumably being in care, the father has no idea what responsible parenting looks like as he will have had none with his own parents - so despite coming across as totally useless, he likely has a tonne more work to do and with a lot less support than someone in the average family.

There will consequences to whatever she does next. None of if great for anyone. Sometimes we just have to make the least worst choice and live with the fallout.

Wow this is awful. They are both incredibly stupid to let it happen again. He was 15 and in foster care and on drugs so it was a bit hopeful of her to think he’d manage to be a good dad. He’s proved he isn’t and she’s got pregnant by him again. I would be fuming with her. What a stupid thing to do. She needs to step up now and really think about what’s best for her little boy. Bringing another baby into this shitshow would be so selfish of her as it would put so much strain on you and and would have a huge impact on her ability to care for her first born and complete college. She really needs some effective birth control, she should have figured that one out after the first baby was born. Maybe she’s hoping you will help out with it all Op? I would be very firm that if she decides to keep the baby, then both babies are very much her responsibility and not yours.

I think all commenters trying to persuade someone that they, or someone they know, should get an abortion ought to have their accounts deleted. Persuading someone that an abortion is the sensible, responsible choice, when the mother has expressed no wish for one, is coercion in its ugliest form.

You do sound like such a good Mum/Grandma 🌸 <this

But when does your life start again? In 18 years when she maybe is still making poor choices? Sounds like she should move out and take control of situations as they come up. It can be done, I know 17 yr olds that have done this much to others surprise.

PS stop babysitting so there is less time together for the lovebirds

I’d just like to send you a big thank you for standing by your daughter, I’d send you a hug but I don’t know that’s what you need . It will be ok .

Dont be so ridiculous. It's not the daughter we are talking to. The OP I'm sure is in agreement but also the OP has clearly stated she will support her daughter no matter her decision.

I agree whilst it ,is the most sensible option
pro choice works both ways nobody should be forced to continue with an unwanted pregnancy
but neither should anyone be coerced into a termination
the daughter does need to know how hard it will be having a second child at such a young age but ultimately it's her decision.

The 'dad' was 15 when the baby was born so your DD was sleeping with a minor and one who is in 'care' and you're calling him 'useless' and shouting at him. If this were the other way round there would be cries of involving social services/police etc to arrest the boy. He's a child! of course he doesn't know what to do and cries, being in care also means he doesn't have parental support/guidance at least not the type @OP is giving her DD and probably traumatised by it all. This is really a big mess but OP's DD needs to take full responsibility. Are there benefits she can claim? hopefully @op will continue to support her. Is she aware of the implications of having 2 dc fathered by a minor and the trouble she could get herself into beyond just being pregnant?

I completely agree with @Shessweetbutapsycho

I am sure most people would prefer not to get a job and spend more time with their babies but we simply have to earn money.

@StrugglingNannyNan You have to be crystal clear with the level of help you will give her and how having 2DC is more than double the workload of 1 child.

I would also make it clear that her BF has not stepped up to being a father so what makes her think he will do so with another DC? You can only judge him by what he has done so far and he has failed at every level. Him being in care is not an excuse to abrogate responsibility.

I would not be surprised if SS gets involved.

Because of all the facts above, I would strongly encourage her to get a termination.

Uricon2 The Roman Catholic Church also (still) officially prohibits artificial contraception but I'm sure you know that.

Yes of course I know that, and for many years was not a communicant because of it. However, after having 4 children in about 9 years (each one being bigger than the last) & trying the RC's methods of contraception which didn't work, my pelvic floor was fucked to the extent that I needed surgery. I was exhausted & I was told not to have any more children. OK, several years later I went on to have my 5th but he had to be a caesarean.

All our children were baptised & had first Holy Communions,

I used to argue with my <celibate> priest about contraception & how it's only based on a small part of the bible relating to Deut. 25:7–10 relating to the Old Testament law that if your brother dies, that you should take his widow on as your wife, even if you already have a wife - thereby giving you 2 wives which is against the Church's law.

Then there are a load of Bishops & Popes in the early church who upheld this in order to increase the number of Christians.

Then we have the teaching that sex isn't for fun, but for procreation, but also gets confused as it says that it is to reinforce the bond between husband & wife (which the traditional Protestant marriage service also reinforces).

I asked my priest if sex is purely to procreate, does that mean that a husband with a wife beyond child bearing years shouldn't have sex? In which case what about Sarah, Rebecca Elizabeth & many other women in the bible who conceived post menopause &, presumably were having sex just for fun.

My poor priest was tied up in knots.

There's a few months between them so anyone who suggested that would be being ridiculous either way.

What kind of trouble do.you think she could get into as there's only a few months difference🤔

By support I mean I’m trying to be someone she can come to and be honest with. I do help financially and I do a fair chunk of the childcare, yes. It’s her last week of college before summer this week and that’s been the main reason I’ve stepped in so much, just trying to help her keep that going. The college nursery is great but obviously doesn’t cover evenings or weekends so I step in when needed. I also look after grandson every now and then so she can see her friends. I don’t mind doing that part, she needs a bit of normal life too, but it’s starting to feel like I’m doing the parenting sometimes.

She’s asked me not to tell his foster carers about the pregnancy until she’s told him herself. I said I think they need to know but she begged me to wait. I’m keeping an eye on things and I will say something if I feel like it’s getting unsafe or too much for her.

They usually take grandson out to the park when they see each other or he comes round here. He doesn’t do much in terms of actual parenting unless she really pushes him. Like today they came back from the park and she basically guided him through bathing grandson, giving him his bottle and putting him to bed. If she hadn’t encouraged him I honestly doubt he’d have done any of it on his own. And he still had to ask where everything was.

He used to stay over sometimes but he was no help to her at all with night feeds or getting up when the baby cried. She ended up doing everything and was completely exhausted. I put my foot down on that eventually and said if he’s not contributing there’s no reason for him to be here overnight. That was months ago now and he hasn’t stayed since.

DD isn’t getting any benefits at the moment. I’ve encouraged her to look into it but she says she doesn’t want to get “used to that life” which I do understand, but realistically she’s already got a child and now possibly a second on the way. I can’t keep doing everything financially long term.

Her dad passed away when she was 11. They weren’t especially close as he lived about three hours away and they mostly just talked on the phone, but it still knocked her when he died. I do sometimes wonder if that’s part of why she clings to this boy so hard, trying to make a family unit she never really had.

Believe me I’ve thought about stepping back more and I do think I need to. It’s just hard when I see her struggling and know the baby would be the one to suffer. But I hear what you’re saying and I think it might be time for some firmer boundaries.

Being very hard on the dad. He’s a bad parent - well yeah no shit! He is a child himself and is in care so very vulnerable.

I think that listening to others views is important and trying to shut people down by deleting their accounts is ridiculous.

I also think termination for this child who is having another child is the best option.

How would everyone react if it was her partner pressuring her into an abortion? Much of this language ("strongly advise", "cut her off if she refuses") is the language of coercion. Abortion should not be coerced.

I have a friend who was in a similar situation, accidentally pregnant at 16, then again at 18 (we all suspected not really an accident that time but who knows). The dad not quite as useless as this one sounds (and certainly hasn’t had such a hard start) but still pretty f-ing useless. I hated him back then.

They’re still together more than a decade later, the kids seem broadly happy. Her parents are amazing and have given lots of support over the years. Equally, she definitely stepped up and they’ve mostly lived independently (with gov support). She made it through uni as a mature student once the kids were in school and has a good professional job now. It’s not the life I would have chosen but it’s not been the disaster you’re afraid of either.

Sorry you find yourself in this situation, it must be incredibly stressful. Not wanting to play it down, just wanted to offer a glimmer of hope.

I agree- I don’t think this is a great situation at all but I would have been horrified if someone “encouraged me” to get an abortion. I don’t agree with PP that it is just a bundle of cells at the moment -and as that is my personal belief an abortion is not something I would choose. I just hope the DD makes a decision that is right for her and her child (children). My personal belief also doesn’t mean that I don’t think a woman has a right to choose- her body her choice, but in that I also believe she should be free to make her own choice not pressured.

It's entirely different than if it were a partner, because her mum didn't get her pregnant. And persuasion and coercion are not the same thing. Nor are consequences. Words have actual definitions.

Oh do grow up.