DS17 - don’t know what to do or where to turn

[OhFFSNigel]

DS is 17, has ADHD and ODD. At college, not working, has never managed to get a job despite applications and one interview.

In the last year we have had police involvement for him selling counterfeit goods and also for assault. Both were NFA’d by police. He has been in a number of fights including with a family member which has caused huge fall out and a family rift, he is elusive about where he goes and what he does. He generally observes curfew and college attendance is good.

He can get very angry and is scary when he is angry. The last two weeks have been hell. He ran at and raised his fist to my DH (not DS’ bio dad) in anger because DH told him to stop being rude to me. He has smashed up the spare room in a temper because I refused to give him money after the above incident. Since then I have asked him to sleep outside in the garden office as I don’t want him in the house, I want him to find somewhere else to live but he refuses to go to his Dad’s and there is nowhere else for him to go.

Yesterday when we refused to allow him in the house while we were out, and refused to give him money he destroyed the garden. Ripped plants up from the beds, tore the heads off things, threw plants at windows, upended pots, tried to saw his way into the back door handle.

I’ve phoned police this morning as he is refusing to leave the home. They won’t come, advised to ring GP!!

I also have a 1 year old and this is intolerable to live in. Any advice as to what I can / should do from here? I’m honestly at breaking point. He is quite verbally abusive too, calling me mentally unstable etc. Please help 🙁

oppositional defiant disorder can also improve when the adhd is medicated. OP hasn't said about his medication it certainly doesn't sound like he's on any.
are there times when he is more reasonable/sorry for his actions OP, that's when you could try to get through to him. I thought ds had ODD but it does seem to have calmed down - it was so hard though it's hard for others to understand

The positive attention given to the baby will probably feed into his negative self view as well. Is there anything you can do with him OP that he enjoys, somewhere away from the house and the rest of th family?
He can't go on like this. But I can guarantee you this isn't making him happy either

I think everyone involved needs a chance to calm down and get some perspective . He hasnt actually hurt your DP - he ran at him and raised his fist. What he did to your garden is upsetting, but its just plants . I feel you are escalating the situation by making it more than it is.

can he go to a friend or relative for 48 hours while everyone calms down? Clearly he cant live in your garden so you need to find a solution for him to come back. Would you fit locks on doors if you are worried about him trashing stuff? Would he agree to replant the garden?

I agree he sounds very pushed out and rejected, and while his behaviour is vile, you need to do some really hard work to sort this or his whole life will be ruined.

@Pleaseshutthefuckup

I totally agree that he needs medical help. However, I know from personal and professional experience that accessing mental health support is easier said than done.

The DS will soon be 18 and single men will not be prioritised for LA housing. If 'lucky', he may get a place in a homeless hostel full of drug addicts and ex-cons.

In my view, there have been extreme reactions on all sides here. Clearly, his behaviour is totally unacceptable. However, it is also not a practical or reasonable solution to ban him from his own house and ask him to 'leave'.

I can also see that this has all started by an extreme (and wrong) reaction from the DS to a perception of not being wanted. The OP is slagging her DS for not having a job even though he's in full time education and has been looking for one.

He’s been in numerous fights
criminal activities
aggression to his SD
very serious vandalism of the family home

but the worst of it was the tone of the messages to his mother

Another point is that he is attending college well, and will presumably gain a qualification from that.

That could all be in jeopardy if he 'leaves' his house as he has been asked to and ends up on the street or in a homeless hostel.

@Funnytaste

Damage to plants in anger is not very serious vandalism under any definition.

And again… that cherry picking

He has smashed up the spare room in a temper because I refused to give him money after the above incident.

while we were out, and refused to give him money he destroyed the garden. Ripped plants up from the beds, tore the heads off things, threw plants at windows, upended pots, tried to saw his way into the back door handle.

@SeaSwim5 I do agree with all those points. The support out there is not there basically. And you're right that the outcomes aren't likely to be good if you rely on the state.

The lads capacity to function like other people is in my sense just not there. He can't do it and the pressure is too much. This is how burn out happens to ND people. It's hideous and cruel that society is not set up to help in these situations.

I also completely agree with @Funnytaste . Those observations are also correct. There will be so much more happening that OP hasn't mentioned.

@Funnytaste

Ultimately he has a medical condition which affects his ability to respond to conflict situations.

I am not a medical expert, but I am pretty sure that locking him out of the house and telling him to leave is not an effective or sensible way to deal with an 17 year old with such an illness.

ADHD and ODD are not illnesses

@SeaSwim5 wjere did you get that

a) this is a “new man”?
b) adhd and odd are illnesses ?
c) the extent of damage was pulling a few heads of plants?
d) the extent of this is simple “an altercation between the DS and father figure”?

@Funnytaste

That is semantics. It is a mental health condition.

And the other assumptions?

My son has ADHD and he does NOT have a mental health condition

you really do have bugger all idea

TBH I would say your DS needed concentrating on - and having a relationship with a man he doesn't like (and who is harder on him than you are) and then a baby that takes up a lot of your time really wasn't in your DS's best interests right now. This kid needed you as much as a teen as he did as a toddler - just in different ways.

ND kids need a huge amount of time, effort and support pouring into them. This is a kid with Oppositional Defiant Disorder as well as ADHD. Life is a huge struggle for him every day and I would say he probably needed a lot of therapy and probably also medication since a much younger age (if he doesn't already).

He needs your time and support OP, he needs you to concentrate on his good points - it's fantastic that he is consistently attending college and that even though he's 17 he follows a curfew. He needs to feel loved and that you're proud of him and you need to pick your battles.

At the moment you are just just tit for tat and every punishment you give out to him, he is going to 'punish' you back because he had ODD. I mean it's the most basic of things - punishing a kid/person with ODD is not going to work, surely you knew that? Why wouldn't you work with him towards him moving out if that's what you needed? Why wouldn't you make it all into a positive and a good thing for him that you could organise together, one step as time?

He is going to be feeling that you have your new shiny family, husband that is too harsh on him and gets involved between you, and a very young child that takes up all your time. This was never a set up that was going to work for him. You set him up to fail IMO.

This is a kid who was always going to be extremely hard work but what strategies have you read up on/learnt/put in place to enable him to succeed? It sounds like these things may have happened in the past if he is doing well enough to go to college and engage. But maybe you thought that at 17 he shouldn't need huge amounts of help and support? Unfortunately that just isn't the case for ND kids (and please don't listen to people who don't have ND kids themselves, because just working with them is very, very different).

I really think you need to look at the huge impact your OH and your new baby have had on your son and work out how you can turn this around. There is absolutely no way that this kid can turn it round himself. He is emotionally probably more like a 14 year old, he is way out of his depth and the way this is going he is going to end up suicidal, homeless or in prison.

What he needs is huge amounts of time, effort and support. Someone who sees the positives. Your DH to get a good understanding of how to handle your son's conditions or to move out. Medication and therapy if he'll accept it. Someone to get him out of this awful tit for tat dynamic that you've got into where you both punish each other more and more and more. Someone to work out all the steps with him to a positive future.

This all sounds really tough to deal with. Has his behaviour change been since the 1 yo was born? The OP reads as if it has. He sounds like a toddler lashing out due to jealousy.

Will he do anything with you one on one? If so I’d give that a go and effectively love bomb him. You are currently stuck in a vicious circle where he acts out, you understandably get cross and push him away, he feels more aggrieved and acts out, and so on.

@Funnytaste

Oppositional Defiant Disorder is a mental health condition under DSM-5.

I understand that it's not right to call it a mental health condition but I totally understand the intent in that post- his brain is not the same as an NT person with no trauma or no personality disorder so the rules are different, capacity isn't the same.

There are situations where it's more than just the ND status. This might be that.

If he's Autistic ( PDA) which I highly suspect, there may be some hope of improvement with the right approach and support.

I'm going to guess he's never had an assessment for autism ( a proper ADOS assesment). Not on you OP. It often flies under the radar. Many professionals are also clueless. Just because one is a psychiatrist, it means nothing. They must have the full understanding and ability to assess using the correct assessment guidelines or their opinion on the possibility of autism is worth shit.

He feels unwanted. Something has happened to him in the past that is causing him to try and get attention, and be awful, to shock you, to make you see him.

Lots of posters here just seem to only want to protect the OP. This is a child, and her child. We can protect all parties here.

Quick google yes?

adhd is not a mental health condition

and what the heck is the DSM-5 (I’ll give you a minute to google)

no chance in getting a response to this is there @SeaSwim5 ?

@comoatoupeira there's always trauma, always, for anyone born ND trying to live in this society. So I'd call that a given.

I'm sure some of the latest stories we've read of young men killing people, including their own mothers, had a history of severe rejection ( by society), probably separated parents as the risk of that in this situation is sadly off the charts, probably low self esteem, bullying, the list goes on.

So we can accept all this but also help OP see that there's a risk here. The behaviour is scary. OP is scared on some level. She's probably minimising alot of this as mum's always always do. So it will be worse than the post is telling us.

And I say with confidence that this is no one's fault. It's tragic tbh. Because I believe this sad scenario is more common than people imagine.

There's not only the risk to OPs wellbeing, there's the risk that in not fully acknowledging the risk, she accomodates more than she should. This needs to be acknowledged.

It would help OP to know exactly what's going on here in terms of Neurotype because I am certain this is not simply ADHD.

I think it's fair to say that we understand the intention of @SeaSwim5 post. I have an ND son. I understand it's not correct to call ones neurotype a MH condition. Yet, the intention makes sense to me. She's saying there's a different approach required here. She's just using the wrong language.

@Funnytaste

I am not a medical professional, but I do have experience of dealing with those with mental health conditions.

DSM-5 (as I'm sure you know) is a manual of mental disorders which is used as a diagnostics.

Mind use the term 'mental health diagnosis'. The BMJ. Mayo Clinic in the US use 'mental health condition'. I'm not sure it's particularly relevant to the point.