DS17 - don’t know what to do or where to turn

[OhFFSNigel]

DS is 17, has ADHD and ODD. At college, not working, has never managed to get a job despite applications and one interview.

In the last year we have had police involvement for him selling counterfeit goods and also for assault. Both were NFA’d by police. He has been in a number of fights including with a family member which has caused huge fall out and a family rift, he is elusive about where he goes and what he does. He generally observes curfew and college attendance is good.

He can get very angry and is scary when he is angry. The last two weeks have been hell. He ran at and raised his fist to my DH (not DS’ bio dad) in anger because DH told him to stop being rude to me. He has smashed up the spare room in a temper because I refused to give him money after the above incident. Since then I have asked him to sleep outside in the garden office as I don’t want him in the house, I want him to find somewhere else to live but he refuses to go to his Dad’s and there is nowhere else for him to go.

Yesterday when we refused to allow him in the house while we were out, and refused to give him money he destroyed the garden. Ripped plants up from the beds, tore the heads off things, threw plants at windows, upended pots, tried to saw his way into the back door handle.

I’ve phoned police this morning as he is refusing to leave the home. They won’t come, advised to ring GP!!

I also have a 1 year old and this is intolerable to live in. Any advice as to what I can / should do from here? I’m honestly at breaking point. He is quite verbally abusive too, calling me mentally unstable etc. Please help 🙁

I see your point about control but realistically once he is living independently, the police and people he meets at work in the future and at college now and in the pub next year and everywhere else won’t care that he’s not “average.” Is it kind to use techniques on an almost-adult that others won’t? Isn’t that dangerous for him out in the world, if he hits someone or wrecks something or threatens someone and is then shell shocked because they don’t respond gently like Mum?

So you think a person with adhd and odd should never be told no? That their being told no means that they can act with impunity, violence and destruction?

You clearly have little idea of these conditions. There are ways of speaking which are more likely to get a positive response and these are considered strategies. It is not simply allowing violence and aggressive behaviour.

But again, if he goes to work and hits someone or wrecks his office because he’s pissed off, his boss isn’t going to say “let’s work on your self regulation” he’s going to say “call 999.”

I’ve worked with children with additional needs, a wide range of them, and while I agree that a lot of the techniques being used are helpful, I also worry constantly that we are just not preparing them for life. I’ve got a boy I’m currently working with who is 12, and every time he raises his hands to someone his response is “yeah well I’m ADHD.” Now that’s true, he does have ADHD, and his medication has gone a bit haywire with the onset of puberty. His impulsive actions are not his fault. However, that isn’t going to stop him being charged with assault, or being hit back by someone bigger and being badly hurt.

I don’t know what the answer is, I wish I did, but there needs to be a balance because we’re seeing huge numbers of people who have been through our service ending up in the criminal justice system because no one actually ever said to them that regardless of any neurodiverse condition they may have, it’s not ok to hurt people.

Yes, also in agreement with @caramac04. Really great advice from someone who has taken time to learn about ND mindsets. There’s a lot of free and invaluable advice on social media platforms you could tap into.

When did DS get his ADHD ODD diagnosis? What behaviours was he displaying to warrant going for assessments? Did you deal with DS meltdowns and anxiety when he was younger?

I speak as a mum of a neurodiverse DD in the midst of learning how to manage meltdowns, anxiety, stubbornness and memory deficits. As pp have expressed fighting fire with fire just escalates into situations you’re describing. Whatever patience you think you have is still not enough! You’ve got to dig really really deep, stay grounded when you’d typically lose your shit and show how situations can stay calm and get resolved.

How he is behaving is clearly unacceptable and that’s important for him to hear that but also just as important for him to hear is that you, your husband and his bio dad want to understand and help him, create a happy home environment for you all - not get him arrested or make him homeless.

He’s got big emotions and overwhelm that he’s clearly not able to regulate and needs more support. His emotional intelligence, due to his ND, is far younger than his actual age.

Fixing life for you all won’t come over night as relationships sound fraught right now. If you can come at this from a different, more ND compassionate, angle you should hopefully start repairing and move in a much better direction.

It’s not just DS that needs help it’s all of the collective family. Don’t single him out. It doesn’t sound like any of you are on the same page as one another.

I could cry for the lad.

I'd be prioritising him over DH and the baby for a while. He needs you most. Could the two of you move out for a while?

If a child has a disability , their parent(s) have to adapt their parenting.
OP’s child seems unable to self regulate therefore an approach to support him being able to do so is in the best interests of all concerned.
If this doesn’t happen then this young adult will likely not be allowed to remain in the family home and could easily end up in prison due to his violent behaviour. OP has a baby to consider too so it wouldn’t be unreasonable to kick him out. Except, who will teach him self-regulation then? The police, prison service etc? No. They can’t and won’t.

@OhFFSNigel my 13yo has adhd pretty severely, and we re under two separate psychiatrists and one neurologist

so sadly I will tell you what’s failing miserable on these kids is the Executive Control and Emotional regulation , which reflects your situation

while you’re clear with your messaging, only medication can truly bring him to a normally functioning level… can you establish the relationship with him so that you get him seen asap

certain medications (especially non stimulants ) can do wonders for controlling emotions

jesus christ - all the best op

If he is not willing to engage with any kind of help, then the only thing you can do is to protect yourself and your young child. His behaviour is escalating and you’re his target. I would be suggesting he go live with his Father

But do they do this at the expense of their other child’s safety? There’s a one year old in the house that a full sized man is trashing rooms in.

Sounds very distressing OP- to me reading those messages is the little boy within crying out to be loved and understood. Could it be that he is testing you to see if you will ‘show up for him’? How long has the stepfather been in his life?

He is violent, his anger is dangerous, he has assaulted family members, it will happen to op and does and her duty of care right now is to protect her baby

I would be interested in knowing the back story here. The DS's behaviour is absolutely unacceptable, of course, and the OP's first obligation right now is to protect her 1yo from any danger. If that means the older DS having to move out, then so be it, but I can't help but wonder what has led up to this sorry state of affairs.

The DS is clearly very angry, and a lot of that anger seems to be directed towards the mum's new partner. I'm guessing that the transition to the new partner/new baby/own dad stepping back hasn't been well managed for him, and that he hasn't had the support that was needed for him to adapt to this new reality. And it sounds like his adhd is not being well managed either.

The OP seems inclined to write him off now in order to be able to focus on her new family. That's totally understandable, given the violent behaviour that he has been exhibiting, but it's also desperately sad that this child's own mother appears to have given up on him at the age of just 17. If she kicks him out now, the future will almost certainly be bleak for him. Perhaps, had she done things a bit differently when he was younger, it wouldn't have come to this. I guess she will never know.

Of course OP needs to consider her baby. I’m interested to know when this behaviour started. As there is a diagnosis I suspect that his disregulation increased from puberty. Dad has moved a greater distance away. A new baby has arrived and likely been the focus of attention of Mum and step-dad - quite reasonably. OP has said son can’t get a job so is probably fearful of independent living.
Its a perfect storm to fuel his anxieties
However, even if OP’s son is the size of a full grown man; his conditions mean that he is emotionally immature.
OP is parent to both baby and older son. By supporting son to self regulate she can protect her baby better.
I do note however that the violent behaviour can be viewed as domestic abuse and that may be the way forward to getting support for OP (to protect herself and baby) and support for son to live independently without totally wrecking any relationship they might have now and in the future.
Without support, OP’s son faces a very bleak future and quite possibly prison.
There is hope in that he attends college and so manages some self-regulation. If he ends up living elsewhere and getting to college is too difficult then he won’t get any qualifications. No sense of achievement, lots of anger, no job. Crap life.

Responses on this thread show two opposing mindsets! For me I think 17 is so young and brain development is nowhere near finished, plus kids with ADHD can be 2 years behind I've heard. I actually think you're putting him in an awful situation not letting him in to his own house or giving him any money. He can't fend for himself can he. And he's not welcome at home. You take an action that escalates the situation then you're surprised he kicks off. Yes he's big and scary and that is what makes it difficult but i would be going to the GP, children's services, counseling, ADHD medication, and seeing if college can provide any support. When he's 18 getting the help will presumably be even harder.

He’s been impulsive since very young, it comes with the ADHD territory, and he has very low frustration tolerance and anger management skills. DH is not new, I’m not sure why you’ve imputed that.

I agree with everything you’re saying. I’m sure he feels like shit! But at the same time, so do all of us living with him. He is constantly argumentative and rude, my 18 month old is seeing so much awful behaviour and role modelling. We’re all constantly on eggshells. He does next to nothing to contribute. It’s very hard to find much positive in what he does but I do try. He is openly NOT sorry for being threatening to DH. So I can’t trust he won’t do it again.

Yes I do agree with you and what doesn’t probably help at all is that I’m on the softer side of things and DH on the harder side. I just feel like I’m now at the end of my tether.

This is such a good point that I think is often overlooked. We have had HUGE issues with school and college because only certain teachers have this approach. He simply cannot work with anyone who he doesn’t get on with.

As an adult you have more autonomy to pick a job, leave a job, start your own business, according to your ethos, who you want to work with, etc. Pick your friends. Pick your partner. Pick your house and lifestyle. In school and college you're stuck with people who may be very different and you may not get on with. It's something to get through and get what you need out of it to enable the life you want later.

It doesn't matter if he consents to being sectioned or not. He sounds like he needs to be, in order to be assessed and receive some (unwanted) help

That’s true on some levels, but if you leave a job every time you don’t get along with a colleague or move house every time you don’t like a neighbour etc is it going to be any kind of productive or peaceful life? Being able to coexist with others even if we don’t particularly like them is an important life skill.

So sorry you are dealing with this. It sounds like you need him out of your house to be honest.

He’s been impulsive since very young, it comes with the ADHD territory, and he has very low frustration tolerance and anger management skills. DH is not new, I’m not sure why you’ve imputed that.

Sorry, I assumed new ish DH (ie within the past 5 years) as you have a 1 year old.

Has he ever tried ADHD meds? I believe they can help with impulse control (for some people) not just concentration issues.

Is he repentant after he is destructive or horrible?

Not threatened himself

but sounds a serious risk to others