My 16yr old boy is awful to live with and we don't know what to do anymore.

[Djinu]

He lives with me and his dad as well as his quite severely autistic brother who is primary aged. He was the most lovely child up until he was 13, kind, funny, considerate. Now he is none of those things.

He did pretty well in his GCSEs not through hard work but literally was lucky. He's now in college but doesn't like his course and is looking for an apprenticeship or to go in the Forces.

We recently found he'd been drinking spirits that we have in our drinks cabinet. Drinking them neat that is. We rarely drink spirits so it took us a while to notice. He was fairly apologetic about that and the spirits are now gone. Then a week later we found him vaping thc in his bedroom. He was high as a kite. We threw all the paraphernalia in the bin and banned him from having access to money.

He's generally either unpleasant and totally ignores us and his brother. His brother can't remember the last time he even spoke a word to him. He doesn't get me anything for mother's day, birthdays etc despite usually having access to pocket money. He isn't kind to anyone other than his girlfriend.

He's been with her for about a year and pays for everything. If they eat out he pays (or I should say we pay as it's our money). We only found this out when we saw his bank statements. All of his Christmas and birthday money has gone on her paying for food, transport, clothes etc. So he can be generous to her but can't bring himself to speak to us.

After the vaping we sat him down and said if anyone found out we had drugs in the house then we would have SS involved with our other child. We cannot have this going on in our house. He agreed to not smoke it again. We also said he needed to be pleasant to his family and actually be part of our household.

I honestly can't think of one positive feature that he has. He has no redeeming features at all and I'm tired of living with someone like this. If a partner treated me like this they would have been kicked out a long time ago but because he's 16 (almost 17) then we just have to live with it.

His dad has kidney failure and needs a transplant. He doesn't have the energy for arguments so tries to just let him carry on the way he is behaving. His poor brother would love his brother even to greet him and say a few words to him.

I'm already exhausted from caring for our youngest and my husband, I don't have the energy for this.

What am I supposed to do?

This. When I read your post I just felt incredibly sorry for your son. Sounds like you really dislike him for normal teenage behaviour. Drinking spirits and vaping? Seriously, what did you expect from a 16 year old?
Oh and he was just "lucky" to do well in his GCSEs? With your attitude, I expect he got no praise at all after doing well.
Poor kid, no wonder he doesn't engage much.

OP- you say about him:

"he has no redeeming qualities"
"I dont have much respect for anyone who allows someone else to fund their expenses"
"maybe he does care about his dad" (this was after he offered to donate him a kidney)
" I honestly can't think of one positive feature that he has" (he offered to donate one of his kidneys FFS)

If you think he isnt picking up on this, you are mistaken. He is. Then you say:

He doesn't want to spend time with us- would you, if someone expressed the above sentiments about you? Would that encourage you to spend time with them?

I am honestly not trying to make you feel bad but honestly, the way you talk about him its like he's some kind of monster. He's a 16 year old lad whose dad is seriously ill and he has a brother who is disabled. Frankly, its no wonder he has emotionally detached if he knows this is what his family think of him.

Dear OP,

Good luck, it sounds incredibly hard and you are getting the tough love that we all sometimes need from MN!

I think when we care for others our potential of generosity can run very low and we can end up taking it out on the nearest toughest looking person! I know I can be hard on the gentler child when the tougher one has left me feeling psychologically defeated.

We don't as parents need to try to be perfect do we? But we do need to see present and past family dynamics as having a huge impact on everyone. I think it's always hard to see your own family with neutral eyes!

All the best OP. He sounds like a great young man behaving like very many of his contemporaries. Not easy for them to be young in this world in some ways.

I meant a weekend away for just me and him. He seems up for it.

He has a lot to be proud about and I am glad he did well in his exams. Just makes a bit of a mockery of it when I tell him if he doesn't put the work in he won't pass and then he passes anyway!! I don't want him thinking he can go through life without making an effort.

And once again, it was not just vaping, it was THC!!

Yes he needs to eat with us. Our youngest doesn't though due to sensory needs (can't bear smells of most foods we eat, the eating sounds or being near others when eating due to his autism) so when I insisted he said well he doesn't so why should I? It was just another battle and I have to try and choose them wisely rather than fall out over everything.

He offered to be a doner to his dad? That shows he cares then!!
I think you need to spend some 1-2-1 time with him. He's probably feeling lost in being at the bottom of the list of who needs care. He doesn't need your money (the laptop), he needs you emotionally. But also remember he's a teenage boy and can be moody 🤣

Poor kid. I feel really sorry for him. And for you, OP, none of this can be easy at all. I would imagine he is very aware his dad is very unwell, and that he has a lot of feelings about it. His younger brother understandably takes up a lot of everyone’s focus and he’s probably jealous. And his mum actually does seem to dislike him, can’t see any redeeming features in him, and wants him out asap. Honestly, I could cry for him. Teenagers are designed to test your patience and the old adage about people being least lovable when they need your love most is often true. My teenagers are a hell of a lot nicer when they feel loved, valued and safe. As are most of us - but you are the adult here, and his mum. If you could put his behaviour aside and let him know that you know he’s going through a lot, that you love him and you’ll always be there for him, you might never realise how much that means to him.

A weekend away just the two of you sounds wonderful OP and he seems up for it aswell that’s brilliant news!
I have a son who’s 18 and he can be challenging at times as can my daughter who’s 16. My youngest has just turned 13 and still at the stage where I can gives him kisses and cuddles without him squirming .
I too am going through an illness this year which has impacted my children more than I thought it would .
My daughter’s OCD has got a lot worse. My son went to sports college for 2 years and whilst he passed his report said if he tried he could have got a lot better grades .
Your son has many lovely qualities to be proud of .

@Djinu so don't eat together, DD and I don't for similar reasons to your younger DS although she manages just fine in n a restaurant (exhausted afterwards ofcourse) but e have our family time afterwards. We play a board game / chess / cards which gives us that same 1:1 time others get at the dinner table.

But why when he said "why should I?" Didn't you say " Because I know life and home is busy and I'd like to spend sometime with you" give him a reason.

I agree with this. I hope you did praise him. He may not have done enough work to please you but to get good grades he must have done some work! He sounds smart. Why burn yourself out doing more than you need?

I read something that resonated with me a while ago - that if teenagers are behaving awfully it’s because they feel awful.

He will have been affected by everything that is going on. He offered to be a donor!! Yet you were dismissive of that.

Teenagers lack confidence and are sensitive. He will pick up on any feelings of disappointment in him that you are conveying. Even if you don’t realise you are.

He really doesn’t sound like he’s been behaving that badly. 16 year olds rarely want to hang out with their families. You do lose them for a few years.

I think you should treat him with empathy. The main time my 16 year old speaks to me is in the car. So carry on with the lifts and being supportive.

How do you know he didn’t put an effort in though?

I used to revise at the last minute and did well doing that. It’s just how I work! He sounds clever but he will have needed to do some work. It’s you who thinks it’s not enough.

My thoughts too. No-one's fault of course, but this isn't much of a life for a 16 year old and he's probably feeling left out and resentful. I had a similar home life at his age and left home when I was 19 because I simply couldn't tolerate it anymore.
Hopefully he will be successful in his Forces application as this could really turn life around for him.

Jesus.

You sound lacking in compassion and frankly what you've written here is just nasty!

I'm not surprised he's dabbled with substances and barely speaks to you

Also I know it's THC and it may be a big deal in your family, but it's not uncommon amongst kids this age. I know my daughter has smoked weed a few times, as long as it's not all consuming.

He did well in GCSEs
He OFFERED TO DONATE A KIDNEY!?!
he has a steady girlfriend who he TREATS well!
He does jobs when asked
And as far as I can see isn't getting himself into any trouble

Sounds like a pretty great kid tbh
The fact that you feel you can't live with him anymore because he doesn't talk you all or communicate well 🤷🏻‍♀️

I think your parents abandoning you at 16 is at the heart of this op.

You've been under huge pressure with your son and dh, getting through to your eldest being 16 and then the deal has changed and he's still a handful.

I think you're unconsciously screaming that none of this is fair, you're giving him what you never got, when will it ever stop?

But none of that is his fault. He's being an ordinary teenager really. If he's unhappy, he must feel there's no space to express that in the family because everything is already so stressful.

He probably feels guilty for any of his needs. Any attention he gets is something it seems like an ungrateful demand that takes away from his father and brother.

Could you imagine what life is like in ten years or so? The structure of your family will be different. Will younger son still be at home? Older son might be moved out and even have kids. It's a door opening onto a different future and you have to decide how to approach it.

It's incredibly hard for you, you're doing an amazing job. I do think you could do with stopping to reflect and imagine different perspectives. Do you ever give him praise? Does your husband? A few nice moments here and there could make a big difference.

You also need respite. You sound like you're under huge strain.

Op, I have some experience of a similar situation with a teen boy.

First off, my heart goes out to you. You are coping with such a lot in your family. I can remember my anxiety was off the charts, I wasn't sleeping, it affected my every interaction and how I viewed and dealt with the world. I could not comprehend how my DS - normally so able beyond his years - could regress to be so stupid or selfish or downright awful. In hindsight, in no particular order, here is what I feel was going on and how things turned around...

• normal hormone surge at an already stressful time for family
• cannibis is a horrid drug and the strength of that THC stuff is horrendous. I actually cannot believe the naivety in the general population around vapes. The effect on the teenage brain is huge and my personal belief is it is particularly horrible on the bright kid with autistic tendancies.
• you are so stressed and he is so rebellious atm that you are clashing big time.
• around this age your parenting style needs to change, to begin to let him go, but SO difficult when he is making poor choices
• on the other hand you do need to give him credit for many things

Things that really helped

• Self care for you. Yoga/exercise to reduce your stress levels. This in turn will let you take that beat to avoid a clash, to demonstrate staying in control so he can emulate your lead. It reframes what you can control - you.
• really show him you are on his side to take the next steps into adulthood. This is hard, because for us the relationship was by this stage so monosylabic. But helping him with learning to drive. Encouraging him with Ucas or job application forms, voluntary work or residentials or sports, whatever to build his cv and help him achieve his goals. Time goes so quick in these last few years of school, he needs support, show him you are on his side.

-he is really bright if he did well in his GCSE's with all this going on and putting in minimal effort. Tell him how proud you are of him. Tell him you love him. He is still half a little boy yet. He is looking for your attention. Give him really positive attention.

• the turnaround for us was so quick. I hope you experience the same. Obviously he needs to step away from drink & drugs to fulfil his potential. Don't make that a battleground, but be clear he is worth too much to be messing with them and how much he stands to lose. How much he stands to gain without - driving, independence, great grades, choices, interesting career etc.

All best.

My teenagers were difficult for a while. Vaping , smoking, drinking , drugs etc. I told them I didn’t approve outlined the risks etc . I didn’t limit pocket money but let them know at 16 it would reduce and to find a PT job which they did (reluctantly!).

Every time I smelt smoke I reminded them of the risks. I always said well it’s your body but this is what could happen. It was clear as well once they earnt their own money and I said ‘imagine if you didn’t smoke / vape / etc how much money you would have!’

With all of them there was a ‘bad’ 12-18 months and they all came out the other side they needed to make their own choices and mistakes and realise for themselves what a waste of money it was !

I would put money on his dad or OP’s partner getting ill 3 years ago

OP there are a lot of pressures on you and I think your worries and stresses are leading your responses.

You have a bright child with solid results who has a loving relationship with his girlfriend (she may or may not be great but he seems to be ok as a partner), does jobs when you ask, has had some minor experimentation with booze and drugs (which he did safely at home/wants attention or help) and who OFFERED A KIDNEY to his dad. He has a disabled brother and will feel the loss of the same relationship that you are sad about.

He needs love. Print out some photos of when he was little, reminisce about funny moments, splash some cash and time in things he likes (not that you would like him to like), tell him how proud you are of what a good partner he is, of how he is finding his thing, big up that intelligence and articulate how hard it is to move from child to adult. A weekend might be too much but an afternoon when the girlfriend is busy could be better. Fit to him while you are rebonding and quickly get him to do somethings with you - not for you.

i too was completely independent at 16 - moved out at 15 (!) and it warps your sense of what a 16 year old is. I wonder if you have some grieving to do around this? I was old for my years and always so ahead of my peers in experiences which wasn’t awful but meant I didn’t get some of the fun they did. Took me years to let the inner child out and I deliberately feed that inner child and pack as much fun in as possible. I also have an ill husband who can’t work and is limited - it’s hard and you have extra caring on top with your other son.

There’s some difficult inter generational trauma at play here op. But I know therapy is probably a laughable suggestion when you’ve so many demands on your time right now.

I’ve been listening to [[https://celebratecalm.com The Calm
Parenting Podcast]] which I find very helpful on navigating the teen years in a ND household. It’s a bit American in its focus, and can feel like a long running advertisement to buy the programme, but I’ve found some of his strategies and tips very helpful at getting past difficult behaviours and getting to the heart of the problem.

One of the points he makes that resonated with me was that our dc trigger us because of our own traumas and the hurts we’re carrying. And that in raising our kids, we have an opportunity to grow and heal too.

I'd be concerned about the drinking best spirits and vaping THC. He's doing that for a reason. He doesn't seem unkind just unable to properly adult yet, which given the circumstances is fair enough. In his kindness he maybe doesn't want to burden you further. So I'd get him a counselor so he has someone who he can offload to and work through things with.
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I don't agree with sending him into the forces if autism is a barrier to that and he hasn't been assessed yet. If it's a barrier there's a good reason for it. So he should be assessed. He isn't coping, if he was he wouldn't be using drugs and alcohol. He sounds shut down, which looks like coping on the outside but isn't because inside he's suffering huge mental distress which is what has caused him to shut down.
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Stop "leaving him be", he's been neglected enough. Parent him. If he doesn't say thanks when you give him a lift remind him, with the least amount of judgement you can manage, that it's polite to thank people who have done you favours. If you haven't already, congratulations on his GCSE results and a mini celebration of that. Yes to speaking to him about his brother's future.
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Ask to meet his girlfriend, with a view to accepting her as part of the family and getting to know the new family member. You sound quite negative so look for some positives in her and try to find common ground to forge a relationship, not be judgemental. You don't know she's s good digger, that side of things could come from DS or perhaps she literally has no money and her parents don't allow her to work wanting her to focus on studies etc. Go bowling as a family or something else that's a bit fun and low-key so it's not the adults sitting around a dinner table quizzing silent embarrassed youngsters, that's hell for a teen. Just put up with him whining that whatever you chose is lame, or let him choose if he has a better suggestion, but don't let him wriggle out of it. You're not asking for the moon on a stick, just to meet the (let's assume) lovely girl who's captured his heart.
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Ask eldest DS to compromise and come on a family day out once every 2 months because you miss spending time with him as part of the family, that's only 6 times a year. If he refuses, listen to why, it'll likely be something broken in your relationship with him or his place in the family dynamics or his stress at his dad's decline etc. Work with him to find a solution.
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He needs you too. You need to spread yourself over all your family not just the two you're a carer for and you also need some reserves for yourself. So find yourself counseling from somewhere. Get carers in for DH and DS to lighten your load a bit and free up some energy for eldest DS and yourself.
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Draw up a housework rota, you already know eldest will participate and even youngest can do dusting or dishes or something else appropriate to his abilities. IDK if you do but don't bitch to other family members about doing their chores imperfectly or not to your standard, as long as nobody is going to get sick from lack of hygiene, the only thing you need to say is "thanks".

Thank you everyone even the ones who have told me how bad I am as a mother. I wasn't really parented from my 16th birthday so now I'm getting it all wrong clearly. I really am going to put so many of the advice into practice and really make him a priority. I'm going to steer him towards a local apprenticeship instead so he's occupied full time but without going away from home.
I'm going to praise him and make him know that I'm proud of him. I feel like most of this is my fault actually. I've taken my eye off the ball with him as my focus was elsewhere.

I adore him, I really do. If he wants to spend all his money on his girlfriend then so be it. He does have so many good points which have been pointed out on here to me.

I just wish there was a book for this but yes I feel like intergenerational trauma is at play here. I turned out quite hard because I had to parent myself and I'm taking that out on him.

I can't wait to give him a hug and try to do things differently.

you’ve got this OP

Tell him about you not being parented from 16 and how you’re finding your way

This is such a good post. I needed someone to say this.

You really aren't a bad mum. You are in an impossible situation and were effectively neglected from age 16, I know things were different 20 years ago but that's really quite shocking and it's fantastic you have come out of it so well.

The weekend away is a great idea but moving forward carve pockets of time out if you can even if it's just a trip to a coffee shop or a couple of hours at the cinema, or if you can't leave the house get a poker set and learn to play and use the chips for that and learning other card games you both need that time both to bond but also to take 20 mins out of your worries .

Good luck with it OP. You're not a bad parent or you wouldn't be asking for, and willing to accept, advice. The main thing to remember is, if what you're doing isn't working then try something different. Nothing changes, if nothing changes. He offered his dad a kidney so I'm sure he's far from a lost cause. Your family had a lot going on and you could all do with a little help that's all. Anyone who had this circumstances to deal with would be struggling in some way, it's just you've gotten a little too disconnected from each other. It's that thing where a disaster either brings you closer as you fight it together or the hairline cracks in the relationship, that you didn't even know were there, suddenly become gaping chasms. I hope you can become close again.