Caught between my daughter and her step mum (my wife)

[80sDad]

Morning all,

I’m hoping that someone can help me with some advice here, as I feel I’m caught between making a decision to leave my wife out of loyalty to my daughter.

A brief overview of our home situation - I have two daughters, a 20yr old who’s currently travelling and a 16yr old, who stays with us half the time. I split with the kids mum 8 years ago and have since remarried to my wife who I met 6 years ago.

My wife admittedly (to me) says she does struggle with my daughter and feels awkward around her which more often than not is very obvious. She rarely makes an effort to go out of her way to engage with my daughter unless we are all together and a lot of the time, even then it’s bare minimum. My ex wife said to me last year that my daughter had said to her that she (my wife) feels like she doesn’t like her. When I brought this up to my wife, she felt bad and made an effort that week, and my daughter was definitely more engaging with both of us to the point she spent most of the week and weekend with us rather than be in her room like she usually does. That didn’t last long.

We’ve just had another weekend of the same level of uncomfort where I feel I am the person in the middle when we sit for dinner. My wife doesn’t really speak to her and if my daughter talks, she talks to me mostly. So I feel caught in trying to make conversation to include the two of them.

What upsets me is that my wife can come across quite mean towards her - not directly but indirectly to me. She will make digs about her doing things like constantly leaving her cup in the kitchen, taking a lunchbox to school that isn’t hers, using stuff of her sisters when she isn’t here etc. Real petty stuff that teenagers do but it’s wearing my down. To the point my wife goes in moods and it creates arguments and atmosphere between the two of us over little things.

My daughter is a good kid, but a typical teenager that comes with attitude. She’s never been involved with parenting her since we’ve been together, and I’ve been okay with that as my daughter was 10 when we got together and has her own mum for parenting (ie my wife isn’t a replacement mum for my daughters).

It’s constantly causing arguments between my wife and I because I feel caught between my loyalty for my daughter and keeping my wife happy. Deep down, I know my wife would be happier if it was just the two of us (my wife and I), and it really upsets me.

Last night was another argument after my daughter went to bed. I’d brought it up that all weekend and at dinner, my wife made no effort with her yet again to engage. Only making digs at me because I’d emptied the dishwasher (my daughter’s job but she was studying so I did it) and then not conversing with her at dinner. When I brought it up she just gets defensive and says that all my daughter does is speak to me. I can’t blame her for that as I’d be the same if I thought someone didn’t like me! I keep saying to my wife that she’s the adult to which she agrees but it’s always short lived and we always go back to the same place.

I really don’t know what to do, and makes me sad to the point when I feel like this, I feel like I should move out and take my daughter with me to make a point. Which, I know, would be a nuclear response and would probably make it all worse.

She’s completely different if we are in company with other people - but never when she’s either with her alone or just the three of us.

Any advice from someone who’s been through the same? It’s something that can’t be discussed with my daughter as it would break her heart and at the same time, the three of us talking it out just isn’t an option.

Oh this is very sad. I can’t offer much practical advice as I’m not in this situation. But your child is part of you and if she loves you then I feel she should see you as a package deal. She hasn’t made an effort to see the good side to your daughter and try and build a bond.

how do you feel about your wife overall ? If you didn’t have her do you feel you could move on and start again ? In a few years daughter will have moved out and uni or work etc but you know you could harbour resentment for a long time and so maybe better to end it?? But go with your own instincts and think about it.

This would be fairly clear cut for me because there is absolutely no way I could love or be in a real with a person who treated any child like that never mind my own child.

How would you feel if your daughter brought home a boyfriend who treated her in the same way that your wife does? Criticising her, making digs, being mean, ignoring her at meal times etc. But playing the part of a good boyfriend when other people were there.

Your sixteen year old has no power here. It's possible that your wife is trying to alienate you from her.

What I would do is end my marriage and I don't think I'd feel any qualms about it either.

Your wife needs an ultimatum. Sort this out or go.

Your loyalty in a case like this should be your daughter. Your wife is an adult, she married you knowing you have children, and unless there’s more to it she’s being unfair.

Your wife is the adult here and she is behaving appallingly.

She may feel uncomfortable as she hasn't much experience of kids and teens but she clearly doesn't like your daughter and resents her being in 'her' space. Your poor daughter, being subjected to this attitude all the time.

As a step parent she should accept that your children are one of the most important things to you. She should have worked on being engaging and having a positive relationship with your daughters. She's not their mother and she doesn't have to behave like one, but she can be a friendly adult.

You may find that your daughter decides the atmosphere is not worth it and starts to excuse herself (she does this half the time by hiding in her room) by not coming at all. A win for your wife but a huge loss for you and your relationship with her.

I wouldn't be accepting that. Sorry. All the shitty little digs and silent atmosphere, and arguments between you. I would be seriously considering whether this relationship could continue.

This is so sad. Was your wife always this cold to your daughter or is it something that started recently? Can you not seek some family therapy or at least some individual therapy. Your wife is deeply in the wrong here and coming across as incredibly cruel. This will do nothing good for your daughter’s confidence. But I do admit it’s very hard to leave, so talking it through with a therapist might be a good first step.

I was your daughter some 35 years ago. SM and I are just not each other's kind of people - never have been, and likely never will be, she also has always proudly admitted to never wanting kids as she was too selfish (her own words before I get jumped on). But, after 35-plus years of marriage, the relationship, obviously, works for my Dad, so whilst it annoyed me a lot when I was younger genuinely I have made my peace with the situation, and I'd say she feels very similar.

Honestly, I'd say you need to accept it won't change after 6 years and with a late teen it just won't. What you do about that is up to you. Either leave the marriage, ignore the situation or call her out each and every time she makes a dig. I'd go with the latter, tell her enough is enough, that you won't push for her to make an effort and accept their relationship for what it is (ie not close) but as an adult, she has to grow up and stop the digs (direct and indirect). See where that takes you.

As a grown-up, I have a completely separate relationship with my Dad that doesn't involve my SM outside family occasions. At 16 your DD may have already made up her mind that she's not fussed with the SM either and is happy to just move in that direction too. Perhaps spend more energy making sure that happens.

As sad as it is, I would break my marriage.
I take from this that your wife does not have children? You do not mention them. But if you are engaging and trying with her children and she is not with yours, I would definitively walk away.
You have tried, several times and it does not look like it will change.

You don't say whether you have any other children with your wife? Or if you are a blended family? (You mentioned her using stuff of her sister's when she wasn't there?)

Not that it makes a difference to how badly she is treating your daughter. Please let your daughter know of your support for her.

I know someone like your wife in life. She actively hopes the child will get fed up and choose to stay at her mums. I judge her but I judge her husband much more harshly. Who would marry someone who treated their own flesh and blood like that. I'd leave her without a second thought

I’m sorry you’re in this situation, it must be incredibly uncomfortable. For what ever reason it seems your wife has build up some resentment towards your daughter, perhaps she thought the time spent with her would of dwindled by now and because it hasn’t it’s becoming harder for her to hide her disappointment,
Have you considered couples therapy first? This may save things, I would certainly look at all options first, especially thinking long term. How’s it going to be if grandchildren come in to the picture along the line, will that be another tested relationship?

She's known your daughter since she was ten, spent half of that time with her and won't even speak to her?! She sounds awful, your poor daughter having to grow up like that. You're lucky she still comes at all because at her age she could choose not to. I couldn't be with someone willing to be cruel to a child

Teenagers can be hard to live with and living with somebody elses teenagers even harder but that's no excuse to make this young girl feel so uncomfortable in her own home. She is also old enough to choose where she lives so I wouldn't be surprised if she stops coming over much now that her older sibling is gone too.

As a single parent of kids roughly your kids ages I would never move anyone in at this stage, and I wouldn't have done it like you did when your oldest was 14 either. There is such little time you have left with them at that point and it's so important to make them feel prioritised and valued. You can stay married if you still feel like you really love your wife (but how can you love someone who so clearly dislikes your child?) but you shouldn't live together. Your relationship with your children is so much more important.

She rarely makes an effort to go out of her way to engage with my daughter unless we are all together and a lot of the time, even then it’s bare minimum
Well, just a thought, but how often do you leave your daughter with your wife? How often are you not 'all together'?
After all, she's not doing any parenting, as you say, she is not a substitute for your ex.
You mention that you think of the nuclear option of taking your daughter and leaving - is this because you are living in your wife's house?
Just a couple of things that may give readers a clearer picture of what is going on here.

I can talk from the other side on this one.
My own kids, now 19 and 17, have a similar issue with their dad's wife.
We've been separated 8 years and they got together soon after. At first she was fine with my kids, she has her own if similar ages so it wasn't a new thing for her.
When they bought a house together things changed and she started being cold towards them.
As it stands now they hardly ever go to their dad's house and only see him once a week away from the house.
She didn't speak to them and just went to a different room the whole time they were there. They got sick of it and it has affected their relationship with their dad.
I wish he had had half the thoughts you are having though.
He put her first and now has a really rubbish relationship with the kids, seeing them for maybe an hour or two once a week. He doesn't know them, particularly dd, and has disappointed me in the dad he has become to be honest.
Please do the right thing by your children.

Your loyalty should be to your child until she has a home of her own, and to be honest, I'd struggle to live with someone so small minded, regardless of my child"'s age.

Other people's teenagers can be hard work but making your child feel she is unwelcome which is what she is doing, is completely unfair.

You could suggest your wife lives separately, you wouldn't be the first couple not to share a house.

Teenagers are intrinsically annoying and the stuff your DW is moaning about- taking other DDs things, not tidying away etc - are probably because she is the one who ends up getting moaned at or doing the tidying away herself. Who is the one who does the bulk of the household chores, is it you or your DW?

Having said that, it sounds unsustainable all round. Some sort of counselling or as you say, you split up .

I feel like I should move out and take my daughter with me to make a point
I would not do it to ' make a point'. You may find that your wife finds that preferable.
She’s completely different if we are in company with other people - but never when she’s either with her alone ...
And I ask again, how often do you leave your wife and your daughter, with her 'teenage attitude', alone? I really hope you are not using your wife as a 'baby sitter' when your daughter visits?
Granted, your wife should be able to articulate the problem, but I bet there are many second wives on here who are left to look after step children, while the father is out, to their own detriment, and without being able to 'parent' the child.
Just wondering.

Hi all,

Thank you all for the feedback. I do feel like I should speak up for my wife a little bit here as it may have been wrongly construed.

When she makes the digs about things - it’s never to her, it’s always to me. What I mean is that she never has a go at my daughter or says anything bad to her. It’s always at me behind the scenes as she would never parent or confront my daughter.

We have all been on holidays etc together so it’s not like there is never interaction, but it’s just generally in day to day life when it’s just the three of us here - there’s just an atmosphere and she takes little interest in going out of her way to engage with my daughter.

does that make sense?

I'm in exactly the same position as you, my ds was 13 when I met dh and while he did initially make an effort with him that soon changed when we had our own child.
He seems to view my ds as second class and belittles him to me, moans to me constantly causing us arguments and claims he comes between us and he feels he has no privacy, he doesn't seem able to anything right and similarly strops when he uses the wrong lunchbox, leaves a cup on the side or any of his belongings are visible.
He does see him as in his space, he wants to spend time as a family and feels my ds in intruding on that.
The thing is, it doesn't change, my son is 24 now and still lives at home to dh's horror and dh is so resentful he just doesn't want him around, it's so obvious and he's constantly telling me he needs to move out and get a life, go out more etc and family outings/meals out etc would not cross his mind to include him as he sees going out as getting away from him.
The only difference between me and you is that I have other children with dh keeping us together.

It won't get better id leave if I could were you, I've waited nearly 12 years for this to resolve and it is worse than ever now.
He says he tries to like him but just can't and that's not going to suddenly change, not everyone will get along in life and I admit my son is highly opinionated, arrogant, loud and of very high energy so can be a pain in the backside at times especially as he never goes out but when it's your child you accept them because you have a bond but that's not there when it's someone else and trying harder is only surface level.

My family say ds will move out eventually and I shouldn't break up the family for the other children so I'd feel guilty if I did but if you don't have children with your wife and have only known her for 6 years I'd say it isn't meant to be.

I wouldn't love someone who treated my child like that in fact I think I would actively strongly dislike them, so I would never be in this situation.

This would completely kill any love I had for someone. Your 16 year old doesn’t even sound tricky and it must be so hard for her being somewhere she feels disliked. The fact your wife is different with her in company tells me she knows exactly what she is doing.
I think I would have to take what you call the nuclear option.

When she makes the digs about things - it’s never to her, it’s always to me. What I mean is that she never has a go at my daughter or says anything bad to her. It’s always at me behind the scenes as she would never parent or confront my daughter.

Also the same as dh, he never says anything to ds directly but will moan and take his frustration out on me causing arguments and then say he's coming between us.
It's a horrible place to be stuck in the middle.

He also lives in a little bubble where he believes ds thinks everything is fine because he's very occasionally nice and takes him to golf or a pint he can pretend to be his mate but it's superficial and put on so not to look the bad guy.

Ds knows exactly how he feels.

There is a deliberate tactic with step parenting called nachoing ( not sure why !) but it involves deliberately stepping back and not engaging either to reduce any unpleasantness or to stop the step parent being overly involved in parental duties, I'm not a step parent myself so I hope I have explained that correctly.

It seems that it's either your DW disengaging and not spending any time together or being expected to do everything as a unit. I wonder if it's more of a half way house that's needed. So tell your DW to do her own thing on the Saturday as long as the three of you have dinner together. Ditto on the holidays, maybe it makes sense to do a city break with your DDs and a separate holiday with DW rather than forcing them all together.

Also make sure you aren't expecting your DW to do all the grunt work. Left out crockery is mostly annoying when you are the one who has to put it away. For a while I resorted to stacking up anything left out by teen DS and putting it outside his bedroom to get the point across. I don't mean be draconian, but if your DD is being messy and sloppy then you need to either get her to stop or pick up the slack yourself, not expect DW to do it.

It does make sense. It doesn’t make it any better or paint your wife in a better light.

'@QuillBill
This would be fairly clear cut for me because there is absolutely no way I could love or be in a real with a person who treated any child like that never mind my own child. '

This!

Your current partner should not need to be told how to get on with a teenager who just sounds like a normal, decent kid.

I could not stay with someone like this. Always put the welfare of your kids first.