Caught between my daughter and her step mum (my wife)

[80sDad]

Morning all,

I’m hoping that someone can help me with some advice here, as I feel I’m caught between making a decision to leave my wife out of loyalty to my daughter.

A brief overview of our home situation - I have two daughters, a 20yr old who’s currently travelling and a 16yr old, who stays with us half the time. I split with the kids mum 8 years ago and have since remarried to my wife who I met 6 years ago.

My wife admittedly (to me) says she does struggle with my daughter and feels awkward around her which more often than not is very obvious. She rarely makes an effort to go out of her way to engage with my daughter unless we are all together and a lot of the time, even then it’s bare minimum. My ex wife said to me last year that my daughter had said to her that she (my wife) feels like she doesn’t like her. When I brought this up to my wife, she felt bad and made an effort that week, and my daughter was definitely more engaging with both of us to the point she spent most of the week and weekend with us rather than be in her room like she usually does. That didn’t last long.

We’ve just had another weekend of the same level of uncomfort where I feel I am the person in the middle when we sit for dinner. My wife doesn’t really speak to her and if my daughter talks, she talks to me mostly. So I feel caught in trying to make conversation to include the two of them.

What upsets me is that my wife can come across quite mean towards her - not directly but indirectly to me. She will make digs about her doing things like constantly leaving her cup in the kitchen, taking a lunchbox to school that isn’t hers, using stuff of her sisters when she isn’t here etc. Real petty stuff that teenagers do but it’s wearing my down. To the point my wife goes in moods and it creates arguments and atmosphere between the two of us over little things.

My daughter is a good kid, but a typical teenager that comes with attitude. She’s never been involved with parenting her since we’ve been together, and I’ve been okay with that as my daughter was 10 when we got together and has her own mum for parenting (ie my wife isn’t a replacement mum for my daughters).

It’s constantly causing arguments between my wife and I because I feel caught between my loyalty for my daughter and keeping my wife happy. Deep down, I know my wife would be happier if it was just the two of us (my wife and I), and it really upsets me.

Last night was another argument after my daughter went to bed. I’d brought it up that all weekend and at dinner, my wife made no effort with her yet again to engage. Only making digs at me because I’d emptied the dishwasher (my daughter’s job but she was studying so I did it) and then not conversing with her at dinner. When I brought it up she just gets defensive and says that all my daughter does is speak to me. I can’t blame her for that as I’d be the same if I thought someone didn’t like me! I keep saying to my wife that she’s the adult to which she agrees but it’s always short lived and we always go back to the same place.

I really don’t know what to do, and makes me sad to the point when I feel like this, I feel like I should move out and take my daughter with me to make a point. Which, I know, would be a nuclear response and would probably make it all worse.

She’s completely different if we are in company with other people - but never when she’s either with her alone or just the three of us.

Any advice from someone who’s been through the same? It’s something that can’t be discussed with my daughter as it would break her heart and at the same time, the three of us talking it out just isn’t an option.

Sounds awful, hopefully you don’t ignore your wife when your daughter is around ?
it’s not something I’ve wanted, and avoided men with children after my divorce, my ex never did.

Did your wife get along with dd when she was 10? I understand that it’s possible that your wife thought she could be a step parent but realised after marriage that she’s not cut out for it. Step parenting isn’t for most people so it doesn’t mean that your wife is a bad person for not being able to do it but she’s an adult with the ability to make choices like move out while your daughter isn’t. If she can’t fake it then she needs to go. Your daughter will be around forever and you don’t want to jeopardise your relationship with her as an adult because of your wife.

I was in the position of your wife some 12 years ago, though I was the step dad to two boys. Their real dad, who lived in the same village, was constantly bad mouthing their mum to his children. It was a form of abuse, but we couldn't do much about it. It was a difficult situation - probably more so than yours, due to the external pressures influencing our relationships. I struggled with my step sons' behaviours, specifically towards their mum, and it showed up in how I dealt with them.

Sadly, our relationship came to an end. It may well have been the best thing for the boys and their relationship with their mum, but it was a difficult situation at the time.

So, from someone who has been there, my advice to you is to put your cards on the table. there needs to be a change, and your wife is the adult who can manifest the change. She is really the only one who can truly make something happen. I think that she needs to be clear that your daughter has to come first, both because she is a child - an adolescent - and because she will always be your daughter. If your wife can't handle that, then she should make the adult decision to leave the relationship.

(BTW, I am re-married and now have a good relationship with my ex and her sons, who see their dad for the divisive bully he is, though they love him of course.)

Completely agree.
Op you are not in the middle, you are choosing to by-stand a horrible situation which you know is not right.

Your daughter needs to come first, she was around before you even met your wife.

Your wife is an adult who knew damn well you had children yet behaves like this, your daughter is a child - YOUR child.

Please put your child first, the only choice is to leave your wife. It shouldn’t even be difficult considering how she is treating your daughter, after 6 years, it’s disgusting.

How can you love someone who treats your child in this way?

Your wife is acting in an immature and self destructive way, driving a wedge between the two of you. These behaviours - and constant negative comments - are often signs of insecurity and unhappiness.

I would make it clear to your wife that your children will always be your priority, and suggest she accept that. She may well realise that her negativity is then only hurting her cause. But you could offer to support your wife to get some help - CBT or counselling - to address her attitude and insecurities. Being controlling, negative and critical is not a good way to live. If she doesn’t address it, this behaviour will manifest in other ways than towards your daughter in future and you’ll all be unhappy.

Update

I called my wife at work as I didn’t want the conversation to be here when my daughter was here.

When I brought it up, she tried to say that maybe what we need to do is make plans with all of us. I said no, this isn’t what was needed, all I need is the simplest of things which is you to start being nice to her and to talk to her / engage in conversation and take an interest in her. Just like I do when her mum comes to visit us I compared it to - I always make such an effort with her.

It got a bit heated and emotional but I have her an ultimatum of two months. If things don’t change in two months, then I’m leaving to which she said fine. I’ve said 2 months as we have a holiday with the kids booked in Oct and I’m not having them miss out.

Good for you op.

Very stressful situation. I've been in the same position with my kids and my then-wife. It got worse when we had another child together. Wife then had an affair and left. My older kids are much happier - and home is a much less stressful environment - since she left.

Anyone who marries someone with kids needs to accept that kids should not be made to feel unwelcome in their own homes.

It’s constantly causing arguments between my wife and I

This is not healthy for either of you and I can’t see how this can continue for much longer.

It can be difficult to bond with step kids/step parents but after 6 years then they should have some sort of bond.

I would tell your wife exactly what you’ve said on here.
Tell her your DD isn’t going anywhere and that you cannot continue as things are.

I would also make an extra effort to clean up after your DD, so that your wife isn’t getting irritated over small things.

I would ask that your wife makes an extra effort with her.
Perhaps they could do a hobby together, which would be just their little thing.

But then I would encourage her to have time away from your DD as much as possible whilst she’s there - could she visit family and friends or simply watch Tv in bed in the evenings.
I would also make sure you are taking your DD out for the day or even overnight trips.

Anything to reduce the time they spend together and so it’s less likely to create tension.

If you DD was younger I would advise ending the relationship.
But you’ve been together 6 years and DD will soon be much more independent and there’s a big chance that they’ll actually get closer as she gets older.

Great update OP!

I don't think guilting the op for something that cannot now be undone, and has already had a significant impact on everyone in the relationship, is harsh, unnecessary, and unhelpful. Not exactly what this site is here for.

Why have you let this situation progress over 6 years?

Your messages have been very helpful, and thank you to all of you.

to answer some of the recent comments - it’s not always been like this to be honest, more so I think that she’s become a teenager which brings the usual teenage behaviours. And as I’ve said, it’s not like she’s never interacted with them and in her defence, she is quite an awkward fish naturally with others and we both prefer spending time with each other as opposed to being with family / friends etc all of the time. We do socialise I’d like to add.

When we got married 2 years ago, she made the effort to take my daughter into the city and spend the day with her (her choice), so it’s not like there’s been nothing. And there are times we all have a laugh etc if we are all together. It just seems to be recently that things have gone downhill.

Well done OP.

My relationship with my father never really recovered from him tolerating similar.

Unless it’s your wife who’s paid for the October holiday, I’d make a decision before that and potentially go without her, you and the girls will have a better time.

(It’s trickier if she’s the one who’s booked and paid for it, but frankly a week at home with you would probably be better than a week tiptoeing around step mum)

That’s the thing , my daughter and I have a really really good relationship. She talks to me about (most) things, and we really have a good laugh the majority of the time.

I think when she comes home today I might actually just ask her how she things the relationship between the two of them is. Maybe I can suggest to her that the two of them need to talk a bit more and she maybe needs to start engaging in more conversation with my wife from time to time and include her if she’s talking to me. Maybe that way it’s being brought up without her really knowing how much deeper the situation is - by me making out that the two of them don’t speak much

As a step mum, it’s really hard to suddenly know how to be around teenage kids when you have zero experience of parenting anyway and you’re neither their parent or their pal. It can take time to figure things out and you all need to learn a little patience.

When I moved in with my DP (now DH), he had two older teen boys, and one moved back in with us full time when he dropped out of college. That was unexpected and proved a very tough period for all 3 of us and DS did spend a lot of time in his bedroom. (The older one was away at Uni for most of the time.)

Thing is, everything changes and we learnt to rub along ok with each other and eventually he got a job and started to go out more often and finally he moved out and into a small flat. When he met his girlfriend (now wife), he really blossomed into a wonderful young man and he’s now a very highly paid professional with his own kids and we all get along wonderfully, so much so, that we’re all going on holiday together to celebrate my significant birthday next year. That was entirely their idea and they’re planning it with DH so there’ll be lots of surprises.

I genuinely love both of my DSS’s and grandchildren and feel so lucky to have them in my life.

Don’t make any rash decisions just yet as your little girl won’t be a tricky teen forever and the teenage years are the hardest.

I wouldn't tell your daughter that she needs to try harder with your wife. It's your wife that creates the atmosphere, she is the one who has to put this right. You daughter is just being a normal teenager who is being treated badly in her own home by someone she hasn't chosen or is related to.

No don't do this.

If you want to have a conversation with your DD it could be about how she needs to do her chores and tidy up after herself.

Leave the relationship heavy lifting to the adults.

My dad's long term partner was like this. She was around from our ages of 6 and 8, and those digs to you are so familiar. I don't speak or see her since I was 20 as I realised I didn't need to have a toxic person in my life when as I had moved for uni I didn't see family much. My sister stopped speaking to my dad because of some machinations of his partner which harmed their relationship ship and turned out to be an elaborate lie a year later, he now has two grandchildren he doesnt see too.

Don't let them happen with your daughter, your wife needs to accept that she's part of you. My dad's partner never ever could despite having her own kids, and the resentment she felt was palpable and we felt it and as we got older we understood where it stemmed from and lost some respect for my dad for allowing it to effect us.

Sounds like your wife isn't putting any effort at all into her relationship with your daughter. If you all live together she should at least be able to initiate pleasant conversations and avoid snarky comments. Living with teenagers can be difficult but, unless there's a massive back story here, it sounds like this situation is created and sustained by your DW. That's really not fair on your daughter.

The key thing to remember op is that your wife is an adult, your daughters home with her mum and hers with yours should be a complete safe space.... your wife is alienating your DD who is not an adult and has little to no power over what happens in her home environment.

I'd be so disappointed with a spouse if they did this, I wouldn't want them there on my child's days if they couldn't be emotionally mature and decent.

Even if your wife doesn't directly criticise your daughter she'll still know how she feels about her. Silences, awkward atmospheres etc

It does a kid a lot of damage to know they're not wanted, trust me on that.

Your wife clearly couldn't care less about your daughter and you have chosen to ignore this, I hope for your daughter's sake this has not been too damaging for her self esteem to see that her father has chosen to allow this sort of woman into her life rather than prioritise his own daughter's happiness. Selfish.

I don't think you can force people to be chummy and get along if they don't have anything in common, and that's ok. They should however be polite and nice and considerate of each other.

It sounds like your wife is nice enough to her, doesn't pick on her or treat her badly. It's awkward but if she's an awkward person she won't be able to fix that, she doesn't have the tools.

I would simply ask her to stop criticising DD behind her back, it's nothing to do with her if you empty the dishwasher instead of DD. Assuming DW isn't having to clean up DD's mess (...right?) then she shouldn't complain.

Trying to force a friendship seems like the wrong way to go about it because it's not achievable. Kindness and respect is achievable, however.