Caught between my daughter and her step mum (my wife)

[80sDad]

Morning all,

I’m hoping that someone can help me with some advice here, as I feel I’m caught between making a decision to leave my wife out of loyalty to my daughter.

A brief overview of our home situation - I have two daughters, a 20yr old who’s currently travelling and a 16yr old, who stays with us half the time. I split with the kids mum 8 years ago and have since remarried to my wife who I met 6 years ago.

My wife admittedly (to me) says she does struggle with my daughter and feels awkward around her which more often than not is very obvious. She rarely makes an effort to go out of her way to engage with my daughter unless we are all together and a lot of the time, even then it’s bare minimum. My ex wife said to me last year that my daughter had said to her that she (my wife) feels like she doesn’t like her. When I brought this up to my wife, she felt bad and made an effort that week, and my daughter was definitely more engaging with both of us to the point she spent most of the week and weekend with us rather than be in her room like she usually does. That didn’t last long.

We’ve just had another weekend of the same level of uncomfort where I feel I am the person in the middle when we sit for dinner. My wife doesn’t really speak to her and if my daughter talks, she talks to me mostly. So I feel caught in trying to make conversation to include the two of them.

What upsets me is that my wife can come across quite mean towards her - not directly but indirectly to me. She will make digs about her doing things like constantly leaving her cup in the kitchen, taking a lunchbox to school that isn’t hers, using stuff of her sisters when she isn’t here etc. Real petty stuff that teenagers do but it’s wearing my down. To the point my wife goes in moods and it creates arguments and atmosphere between the two of us over little things.

My daughter is a good kid, but a typical teenager that comes with attitude. She’s never been involved with parenting her since we’ve been together, and I’ve been okay with that as my daughter was 10 when we got together and has her own mum for parenting (ie my wife isn’t a replacement mum for my daughters).

It’s constantly causing arguments between my wife and I because I feel caught between my loyalty for my daughter and keeping my wife happy. Deep down, I know my wife would be happier if it was just the two of us (my wife and I), and it really upsets me.

Last night was another argument after my daughter went to bed. I’d brought it up that all weekend and at dinner, my wife made no effort with her yet again to engage. Only making digs at me because I’d emptied the dishwasher (my daughter’s job but she was studying so I did it) and then not conversing with her at dinner. When I brought it up she just gets defensive and says that all my daughter does is speak to me. I can’t blame her for that as I’d be the same if I thought someone didn’t like me! I keep saying to my wife that she’s the adult to which she agrees but it’s always short lived and we always go back to the same place.

I really don’t know what to do, and makes me sad to the point when I feel like this, I feel like I should move out and take my daughter with me to make a point. Which, I know, would be a nuclear response and would probably make it all worse.

She’s completely different if we are in company with other people - but never when she’s either with her alone or just the three of us.

Any advice from someone who’s been through the same? It’s something that can’t be discussed with my daughter as it would break her heart and at the same time, the three of us talking it out just isn’t an option.

Your wife is moody and jealous of a teenage girl. She resents your daughter encroaching on your married life and being in your home.

She should have thought about that before she got involved and then married a man with children.

If she can't accept that the situation of the bad atmosphere and poor relationship between her and your daughter is entirely her fault and down to her jealousy then you need to split as she's just going to become more hostile over time.

I 100% could not be in a friendship, never mind a matter where somebody so clearly resented my child and treated them so poorly.

Sorry but I’d move on from your relationship, your other half sounds territorial and selfish. Your child still needs you and you are obligated to put her first. Rebuild your life but why can’t your wife leave the home rather than uproot child?

When I brought it up, she tried to say that maybe what we need to do is make plans with all of us. I said no, this isn’t what was needed, all I need is the simplest of things which is you to start being nice to her and to talk to her / engage in conversation and take an interest in her. Just like I do when her mum comes to visit us I compared it to - I always make such an effort with her.

Yes. There it is.
His wife needs no ultimatums. He needs to look after his own child.
You look after my child (but only in a non-parenting way) or I'm off. After you have looked after them on holiday, of course...

but why can’t your wife leave the home rather than uproot child?
He has not answered the question - who's house is it?
Bet he has moved in with his wife, and out numbered her in her own home.

@80sDad
A previous poster advised you to have this thread moved to the one about step-parenting so that you could get advice from step-parents, who frequently get a bad press.
They could give you their perspective on the situation. Perhaps your wife feels she has no say in how to 'parent' your daughter so she has to talk to you about issues so that you can deal with them. I don't get the impression your wife is cold or mean just that she may feel awkward about what she can of can't do.
Marriage counselling for you both might be helpful. Can't see what a 2 month ultimatum has achieved other than alienating your wife.

My dad was married to a woman who was cold (actually had contempt really, it was more than being cold) to me and my sister. Fine with my brothers, actually made a real effort with them. She was jealous I think. He divorced her after two years, mainly because of how she made me and my sister feel and because he put his children first. I know there were other factors that led to it as well.
If he had stayed with her I don’t think we would have a relationship with him. Feeling unwelcome in your dad’s home is not nice at all. Especially for teenage girls. I respect the fact you’re thinking about moving out and it does seem like you’re putting your girls first, a lot of men seem to get the second wife and forget their parental responsibility.
You need to think about if your relationship with your children and potentially your grandchildren is more important than your relationship with your wife. I do think you should have a frank conversation with your wife tho, and tell her your children will always come first and that she needs to make an effort or you are considering moving out. If she managed for one weekend to make and effort I’m sure she can do it again.

Your wife sounds like an utter dick

Do yourself a favour and choose your daughter. Your wife knows full well what she's doing.

This is how I feel. How can you be with someone who has such little respect for your child? How can you like her?

Your DW is a total bitch. She knew you had DC when she got together with you. She should make an effort to get along with them and be part of the family she's come into. Would be different if the DC was a total bitch but she isn't. Just a normal teen and nobody is perfect. DW is the unreasonable one.

It's tricky about whether to split up or live separately or whatever because you haven't only got one DD you've got a shared one. It's not difficult from the perspective of keeping DW happy, she's being unreasonable so doesn't deserve the extra effort.

You shouldn't ever have to cut off (or bully by exclusion or allow someone else to do so) totally ordinary and non-toxic family members like your DD, just to make someone else happy. How toxic is DW that she'd be happy if you did this? How toxic is DW that she can see she's making a DC unhappy by failing to have basic niceness towards her and making it obvious she resents her presence, and she's fine with that? She's deliberately trying to exclude her, be under no illusions she loves it when DD stays in her room and would love it even more if she left altogether and never came back. It's really horrible.

DW just isn't a nice person and should not have dated someone with DC. She should be the one realising it's not working and breaking up with you any any point in your relationship. Instead she's selfishly trying to get what she wants (marriage, DC of her own, drive your other DD away).

Your 16 DD is a saint. If someone was shitty to me like that I'd quickly lose any interest at all in having any kind of relationship with them. DW hasn't even apologised for her behaviour (not that an apology makes it ok, especially if it's repeat behaviour). DC are programmed to try to please though for parents approval, this will be harming DD and teaching her to maintain relationships with people who are unpleasant to her, ignoring her instincts (she knows DW doesn't like her, it's not really appropriate for your own well-being to try to forge a relationship with someone who doesn't like you, unless it's a professional relationship with a work colleague), brushing their bad behaviour under the carpet and acting like it didn't happen just because they're nice to her for 5min. It's lessons like that in childhood which see people end up in abusive relationships in adulthood. TBH for your DD sake you need to ensure she knows DW behaviour towards her is unreasonable and she doesn't have to be ok with it. Which will be kinda awkward because her next thought will be why are you putting her in this situation then, which is a very valid point.

Even if DD puts up with it all now, you can expect it to affect your relationship with her in adulthood, as with age and wisdom she may come to realise you put your own desires to remain married over her welfare. Don't be coming on here one day all shocked because DD has gone no/low-contact with you, you never see your DGC and you don't know why. This will be why.

If she managed for one weekend to make and effort I’m sure she can do it again.

Actually people can't consistently be someone they're not 24/7, the mask of normality/civility always slips. And when people tolerate the slip, they know they can get away with being their true unpleasant selves and the mask comes off more and more often until it's barely ever there.

One thing I thought is, do you give in to your daughter a lot of the time? You said your DW mentions to you about doing the chores your DD should be doing. DD leaving pots about in the kitchen. Are there other things your DD shoul;d do but doesn’t and your DW is fed up of this?

Oh sorry I think I misread and you don't have a shared DD with your wife, both DD are yours. So is DW showing favouritism for one DC over the other, eg when she's sniping at one for using the other one's things? That's not on either, it is often a trait of a toxic person to use favouritism to cause division in family relationships and effectively cast out one member of the family. The toxic one needs someone to play the role of "person they look down on".

Tbh I'm not understanding these comments being made about your wife. It just sounds like she feels awkward around your daughter because your daughter feels awkward around her. This is your wife's home too and 50% of the time she has a teenager there making mess, not doing chores, taking things that don't belong to her etc, but she can't do anything about it other than tell you, who then just sees it as a dig rather than a request for you to tackle it as the actual parent. "Teenagers being teenagers" isn't an excuse to not correct her behaviour and teach her to respect her home and the other people who live there. That is your responsibility.

You do sound quite bossy. Why did you need to ring up at work? Surely it could have waited until you daughter was at her mothers. You need a discussion rather than an ultimatum. Do you love your wife? If not you might as well call it a day now.

I think part of the problem happens when step-parents are banned from 'parenting' step children, I know it first hand from someone in my family, she moved a man into the house with her children and from the get go he was not allowed an opinion on anything they did or didn't do, he's a decent enough guy and he told us he found it quite frustrating when they were completely disrespectful to him and she never pulled them up on anything, and he wasn't allowed to say anything to them either.. they still all live together 8 years later and they basically just exist in the same space now, none of them really happy but stuck their ignoring each other all the time as the only option they have left.

To me that's not really healthy, no he shouldn't be 'disciplining' them, but he should be entitled to an opinion and be able to express an opinion in front of them, he was bought in as an equal partner, but on the proviso that he not have any sort of opinion as to what goes in in the house that he half pays for?

It seems a bit like this with your wife maybe, she seems frustrated, she's not allowed to say anything negative, only positive things, so now she says nothing at all, and probably resents you for it, don't get me wrong if you let her loose and she does nothing but be horrible to your daughter then that is unacceptable, I had a horrible stepmother, I know what it's like, but you may find with a bit of freedom to have an opinion she finds a good balance and forges a stronger relationship with your daughter, but she needs to do that on her own terms, not yours.

None of this is your daughters fault however, this is a fundamental problem in your relationship and family dynamic, asking your wife to show more interest is not going to help, completely pointless exercise, so you may end up having to leave unless you can find a way to make sure everyone is getting what they need out of this. A bit of open communication is required.

My Dad moved in with another woman when I was a young teen. She made it very clear from the outset that my sister and I were unwanted baggage from Dad's past, and gradually it got so bad that we just pulled away and didn't see Dad at all. I can't tell you how upsetting it was.

Please put your DD first. Being a teenager is hard enough as it is, without that feeling of knowing someone doesn't want you around.

It’s not exactly the same scenario for me, as my Dads wife is like this with my sister, she constantly undermines her to my Dad.
Ive lost so much respect for my Dad, he always puts his wife before us (his children). Im an old adult now and I see him a couple of times a year. I feel that he chose his wife over us so they can look after each other.
its sad.

So avoid bringing it up with your wife again. Get your Dd to do the heavy lifting?

I've been on both side of step mums. My own is really nice to everyone except me. We've made peace a bit now but I've put a lot space into the relationship with her and my Dad to make it work. Sadly the relationship between us all is weak at best. The first time my DSS 3 called me his step mother I felt physically sick as the word is not a good one for me. Being a step mum myself made me understand the pressures and resentments and I get my SM a lot more now. That said I've really tried with my own DSS. I'd say I have a warm relationship with 2 of my 3 DSS. My middle one is tricky, we are ok but not close. They are all grown up and I'd like to think I've helped them as much as I could. I support their relationships with their Dad and these have survived a lot of parental alienation from his ex.
The question you need to ask is what will your relationship be like with your daughter be like going forward if you carry on like you are?

I think you need a long calm open discussion with your wife well away from the situation . Arguing while your Dd is in the house is far from ideal. Yes, she will know. They listen. They pick up on atmosphere.

Don’t argue, discuss. Ask your wife if living with someone take’s terms is what she expected . Not your Dd specifically, but in a family / step family. Listen, talk frankly but calmly about your position in the middle.

Would it work to revert to separate living spaces while you have your Dd? Not all couples live together all the time. Apparently Queen Camilla kept her own house and lived in it with her kids / grandkids part time even after she married Charles.

Stay married but live together once your younger Dd has been at Uni a year?

Your wife is, from your account, behaving horribly, and ultimately I would say your loyalty needs to be with your Dd. She’s the one who didn’t ask to be in this situation.

It seems odd she met her when she was a child aged ten and she’s now 16 and she still doesn’t know how to engage with her?! She’s seen her grow from a child to a young woman. There is surely so much they could do together. It seems crazy even in the same house she’s uncomfortable!

I kind of admire you OP because I have a SM and she is a total cow, and my dad lets her treat us all badly. As a result I now have very little to do with him.

Your DD will be going to uni in 2 years time, so things might get easier after that, but then again this is an impressionable time and your DD will remember what a cow she was, and ultimately blame you for bringing her into her life. She’ll end up loving you, but disliking you at the same time.

It’s a tough one. It sounds like your DW doesn’t know how to handle your DC, and is irritated by the teenage mess that comes with them. She doesn’t love your DC and has no connection to them, so is less tolerant of them than you are.

I know a few men who chose to shut their eyes to how their DC are treated, and then wondered why their DC don’t want to know them.

Your DD is 16. She’s not an independent adult, she needs emotional support and support through her studies and setting up her life. She probably feels cornered with no power. I did. I felt, I have to tolerate this woman and keep my mouth shut so I don’t lose my dad. Then one day I realised that the power had shifted. I had a job, a partner and a place of my own. I was fully independent.

It was then I realised I no longer had to put up with this charade, and I went low contact with my dad and told him his DW was a vile human being.

The question you need to ask yourself is; what’s more important to you,

1. Your marriage, with your adult DC not really wanting anything to do with your DW, so they avoid you. They don’t respect you. You don’t get to see them that often, no Christmas Day with DGC.

2. A life long relationship with your DD’s, their partners and their DGC, but divorced again.

I don’t envy you your decision.

i was your wife many years ago... although i was not married too my then partner, we were supposed to be getting married and in the end i called it off, all over his then 15 year old daughter.

it was a very complicated relationship.. my ex was still heavily involved with the mother of his daughter, she called all the shots when it came to their children. told him what to buy, where to be, she basically said jump and his reply was 'how high'.

at first i got on really well with his daughter, until his ex-wife started putting shit into her head. she told her daughter that me and her dad would have a baby soon and then she would be pushed aside (both me and my ex were sterilised/snipped and it would have been impossible for a baby),. the wife told the daughter alsorts to the point that she hated me, and did everything she could to split me and her dad up.

in the end i left.. because it wasn't right to make him choose, me or his daughter. my ex admitted that there were changes to be made, he just wasn't prepared to upset his ex wife by doing them.

i dont know why i am telling you this, but you need to talk to your wife, alone and hope that she is honest with you about what the problem is? youve been married 6 years? you must have been with your wife before that, and she must have known you had a daughter? things must have been good or you wouldn't have married your wife.. so something has happened... you just need to work out what

Thank you for your reply. Ill be honest - since i joined this site, im struggling with the abbreviations? What to they all mean? DW DC DGC etc. everyone seems to use them