How do you make yourself love them when your heart isn’t in it?

[Howthehell24]

I’ve NC for this but have written on here over the last year about my DD’s awful behaviour. She’s 13. It’s ranged from rudeness/swearing through destruction of property to assault/violence against me, DH and her younger sibling. It’s been relentless. The police, school, SS and CAMHS are al involved with little by way of improvement to date. She’s currently refusing school too.. There is zero contrition on her part.

Everything I read says that you need to keep loving them, to show it’s unconditional and assumes that you’ll be able to do just that but I can’t. She’s hurt me so much both physically and mentally (has said terrible, terrible things to me and tells me daily how much she hates me) that I feel bereaved. The child I loved is gone. I look at her now and feel nothing. Indifference. Watching my friends’ kids of the same age over the holidays - having fun, being together, just ‘being’ - was akin to seeing people with their dads after mine died. How do you get back the feeling? What if I can’t? Just suck it up for 5 years of transactional exchanges - ‘give me data and I won’t hit you’ - then be happy when she leaves at 18? It’s too depressing to contemplate.

The impact of all this on her sibling is one of the worst aspects. There has already been some copying which is awful to see as the little one has no real idea what she is doing or why but has no other role model at home.

Shesc13 her hormones are all over the place.Just remind yourself "this too shall pass"

My other child is older, and it's had a huge impact on him. In fact, he needed counselling at school for several months. Of all the shitty, awful things that happened in the 7 months of crisis we experienced, this was probably the worst as we couldn't shield him from it.

She's pulling you around by your hair.

A lot of people reading this and telling you it's just that you need to set boundaries need to let that sink in.

Something is definitely wrong here. You've obviously spent a lot of time exploring the ND route already, so I'd be getting her to the GP (you and husband take her there against her will, if necessary), and see about a diagnosis of PMDD. Hormones and antidepressants I think are the usual suggestions. I cannot see any reason not to explore that avenue.

I’m so sorry you’re having to deal with this. It must be exhausting and terrifying.

Have you considered calling the police when she does something like this? It’s possible such a shock might highlight how her behaviour is completely unacceptable. Although I understand how, as a parent, that’s very hard to do.

I was one of the posters who suggested boundaries, and with good reason. It has worked for us with an extremely violent child. She broke my husbands arm, she has assaulted police officers and we were subject to daily punching, kicking, biting, pushing, pinching etc.

It's understanding what drives the behaviours that often gets to the root of the problem. For us, it was school anxiety and coming to terms with her diagnosis. Once we were able to put strategies in place, things improved greatly.

Suggesting implementing boundaries wasn't a flippant comment - we have worked our backsides off to learn different approaches and put them into practice. There has been blood, sweat and tears and it has mostly paid off. The child I have now is very different from the angry, easily-led wee girl intent on self-destruction this time last year. She feels safe and knows that there are consequences for certain behaviours but which will be carried through. She has the choice to do what she wants but mostly values her screen-time, pocket money and time with friends. On the occasion that she does have a blip, we are in a better place to move on from it.

@moanybird I must admit, I was a little perplexed by your post, as I'm well versed in PDA (my daughter is awaiting assessment under CAHMS), and implementing strict boundaries is usually extremely aggravating for those with PDA. Hence why school is so difficult for them. So I don't really know what to make of your comment. My daughter is certainly neurodivergent, we have always had strict boundaries, and she still exhibits those kinds of behaviours. I'm trying to move towards declarative language and implement strategies in The Explosive Child.

OP
Call the police the next time she's violent towards you.
And each time after that.
Let this be the boundary - and the consequence.

I would also say, have your phone on record for the abusive things she says to you. That way you can bring the recordings to the GP.

Have you got Early Help support? I can't remember if you've mentioned whether you have social services involvement but you can self refer/ask for support and there may be help this route if camhs are not being helpful.

@ThreeBeanChilli Yes, in place. Allocated worker has met DD at school and at home, met us separately and is arranging to see sibling at her school. Has also arranged a multi-agency meeting for next week. She seems effective!

Have you read Gentle Guidance by Marie Gentles? Amazing book.

Oh that is good! It is good when the system works well.... once you have a named worker at least you have a point of contact for support too.

@SeulementUneFois We do call them. She has a record. The last time - just before HT in Oct - they said they were arresting her and took her out to their van for a word. They wanted to take her to a station 15 miles away for overnight custody as our local station was closed. I just couldn’t let them. Anyone who has been there will know what I mean. It would have broken her. As it was, SS advised that younger sibling wasn’t safe so she was to spend the night elsewhere. To whichever poster said I was self-centred and needed to read more/delve deeper - trust me, we’re in deep.

@Azandme Thank you for the recommendation.

I haven’t read all the pages, but have you tried a low key, unemotional but honest response?

I’d imagine shame and overwhelm battle it out in her head a lot.

The comment about miscarriage and her sibling, I’d just respond coolly, ‘what a horrible thing to say’. No emotion, just fact.

‘That’s unkind’
that hurts
that’s rude
That’s assault.
That’s a crime

Some I found sanctions and consequences didn’t work, emotion triggered huge rage and distress, but factual statements made it through.

There’s a brain in there that needs to learn limits, while not triggering all that defensive emotion.
You just steadfastly model correct behaviour.

That was me.

if you want support not ideas or different perspectives that’s ok.

if you want ideas of new thinks to try, can you say more about

what you DO think is going on?

in this thread this is what you’ve said:

She was a very biddable child until early 23. Definitely not in charge. Have lived in same house all her life. Nursery, primary and secondary all in walking distance. Been married to DH who is her DF for more than 20 years. Sibling is four years younger and has followed the same childcare/school path. V close knit and safe community.

which isn’t much to go on

and you said you don’t think she’s ND

what then DO you think are the deeper drives?

or if you don’t know can you describe her more when she was younger?

what was she like as a
baby
toddler
preschool
primary age

introvert or extrovert?
lots of friends or none / a few?
energy levels?
emotions and temper?
what’s her learning style?
how did she do at school?
what interests and activities?
what other adults (teachers etc) did she really like or dislike?
how has her sleeping and eating been?

what was your parenting style like before things got hard?

what was your husbands?

etc

understanding the drivers will guide you to what strategies are more likely to be effective which aren’t

I actually don’t think it’s a bad idea to disengage a bit.

Her behaviour sounds so awful that sanctions or consequences are meaningless and the only thing left is to take a mental step back. It’s a bit like being caught in a rip tide where if you try to fight it you’ll drown. Just let it take you wherever and survive, that’s key here.

I think with her sibling all you can try to do is be honest and explain she’s having a tough time transitioning to adolescence and try to shield them as much as you can.

@Fernsfernsferns I appreciate your input but think the internet probably isn’t the best forum for such a wide-ranging analysis of the last 13 years. My original query was more along the lines of ‘can you recreate the love’ and I hoped to hear from those who have and have not with their experience. I wasn’t really expecting an online diagnosis to be explored.

I have recreated the love. My child was younger and less violent- a younger child’s violence. He’s now a delightful young adult able to manage his own responses to environment.

I’ve also lived with violent children, who were eventually removed when I lost all hope of any change and knew I was losing the ability to respond calmly. I missed them dreadfully and mourned their moving hugely. As young adults they have issues and we are not close as we were before. I could rebuild the love, given that they are no longer violent. They have other people though.

Sometimes love isn’t a warm mushy feeling. It’s not letting the police put her in a cell.
It’s pursuing therapy and Social workers and school.
It’s making a birthday cake, despite everything.

Hold on to those expressions of love.

And try and create little moments of peace and joy in amid the chaos. We did a few things like, lighting a candle at the start of a meal. Maybe having a hot chocolate routine. The grown up equivalent of story time. Silly rhyming games as you pass each other- see you later alligator/ in a while crocodile. Love you lots/like jelly tots.
Moments of connection, built in.

I agree with rhe strict boundaries not working.
Sure they may work for a clear mentally well NT child. For kids with mh, additional needs or behavioural issues it may not. Great if it does.

It didn't with my dd. We had tried everything.

I am in a lovely group on facebook. It is run by the author Suzanne of ' Never let go' Partnering not parenting approach. She tells the story of her daughter.

The group is really supportive and has been a godsend.

I totally understand why you were perplexed by my suggestion of boundaries. We were in such a state of crisis that we had to try anything - this time last year I was planning her funeral in my head. With the help of our family support worker, we came up with a few non-negotiable rules which were put in place to keep her safe. The impulsive, risk-taking behaviours had far overtaken everything so that was our starting point to turn things around.
Calm and consistent was the message we gave her every time. No shouting, just calm and controlled - we would respond to verbal abuse with a short statement ie. "Don't talk to me like that please" with plenty of warning if it carried on and she would face a consequence (reduced screen-time).

Her PDA has always been very apparent and very difficult to deal with, even since toddlerhood. We adopt a low demand style of parenting. I can let a lot of things go when I see her behaviours are driven by a nervous system response. School in particular is a trigger.

We have reflected on the past year a lot recently as she matures and our relationship improves. It was very telling the other week when my daughter admitted she was very embarrassed about some of her past behaviour. She told me she was glad we took control of the situation as she was so unhappy and felt helpless. What tugged at my heartstrings most is when she said she appreciated that we never judged her or cast things up to make her feel even worse about herself.

I just want to say to the OP that you can repair a hugely damaged relationship and there is hope. Love isn't all about girly days out and movie nights in. It's staying up all night with them when they are drunk and distressed, it's patching up their cut arms, it's advocating for them at school, making their favourite meal, phoning the police when the situation warrants it - whilst all the time you can hardly bear to have them in the house.

It's so incredibly tough. Hugs to all the parents going through a similar situation.

@pickledandpuzzled Thank you for your insight. Likewise @Newtoniannechanics. DD was unnecessarily and unspeakably cruel to her sibling tonight. Made her cry proper sorrowful tears. I remained calm and detached but hope sibling feels supported.

@moanybird Read yours when alone feeling bad for sibling after tears and, can’t lie, you made me shed a few of my own. Well done to you. I think you are/were better at it than me.

Not better, just further on

I had a full nervous breakdown last February. My husband and I nearly reached breaking point and my lovely son was receiving counselling for many, many months and didn't do great in his exams. The effect on our family has been profound. And it's only because we received the right intervention at the right time, with the most amazing family support worker that we are still a family unit.

My heart breaks for you as I truly know what you must be going through. Hang in there x