How do you make yourself love them when your heart isn’t in it?

[Howthehell24]

I’ve NC for this but have written on here over the last year about my DD’s awful behaviour. She’s 13. It’s ranged from rudeness/swearing through destruction of property to assault/violence against me, DH and her younger sibling. It’s been relentless. The police, school, SS and CAMHS are al involved with little by way of improvement to date. She’s currently refusing school too.. There is zero contrition on her part.

Everything I read says that you need to keep loving them, to show it’s unconditional and assumes that you’ll be able to do just that but I can’t. She’s hurt me so much both physically and mentally (has said terrible, terrible things to me and tells me daily how much she hates me) that I feel bereaved. The child I loved is gone. I look at her now and feel nothing. Indifference. Watching my friends’ kids of the same age over the holidays - having fun, being together, just ‘being’ - was akin to seeing people with their dads after mine died. How do you get back the feeling? What if I can’t? Just suck it up for 5 years of transactional exchanges - ‘give me data and I won’t hit you’ - then be happy when she leaves at 18? It’s too depressing to contemplate.

That sounds awful. And have you come out the other side? What sort of relationship do you have now?

So sorry to read this OP. I feel your pain. I have posted a lot about my own DD who is nearly 18. Less physical violence thank god but she has said some terrible terrible stuff to me mainly. School etc a nightmare and was refusing tho I think that is vaguely improving. I was at rock bottom a couple of months ago- on the verge of a breakdown and planning to leave home as that seemed the only option. Slowly her behaviour has improved marginally . We actually had a pleasant few days away with family in UK (we live abroad). I saw some of the old her. No advise - just try to cling on to the good moments , even 1 kind word etc. It's truly awful and I have spent many months wishing she wasn't my daughter as it was so traumatic and upsetting. I genuinely felt (and sometimes still do) some kind of PTSD when she called me or threatened me by refusing yo go to school etc if I didn't do XYZ. We are not out of the woods but I feel slightly calmer about it and have distanced myself a bit. I wish you strength and patience- it's bloody awful and I felt it was killing me at times.

@thecatneuterer It’s ok.

Still ALOT of shouting but far more sensible conversations in between so it breaks it up a bit.

School was the main problem and now we’ve left that behind, there is far more calm.

A big part of the stress came from sharing information with me about what other people were doing and how, as a sensible adult I should deal with that information.

It is still tough but not as tough as it was.

And although school was a disaster, it did help having them around to discuss things with.

Now I’m far more alone.

I don’t really share a lot with people as I don’t want them to judge.

Our Social Worker has also said goodbye so it’s hard without them too.

Very, very similar situation here, but we have turned things around in the past few months to a level where we are no longer in crisis.
DD13 was physically and verbally abusive, incredibly destructive, violent towards police, self-harming, school refusing, going missing, using alcohol and weed.

We also have a stable family home, I always worked p/t, no family trauma, I am still with DH who is supportive. DD has had a stable and privileged upbringing with lots of love. I always felt there was 'something' going on with her. She now has a dual ADHD/PDA diagnosis and it's now become apparent that her previous primary aged self was expert in masking. The wheels came off in lockdown then she fell in with a bad crowd at secondary. I found it very hard to like her, yet alone love her.

What changed? Well it was our mindset. Instead of blaming and challenging her, we sought to understand what was driving her behaviours. CAMHS became involved (to medicate) but were/are pretty ineffectual. We reached the point where she was a danger to us (knives pulled as well as broken bones), our other child, and more importantly, herself. Her impulsive risk-taking behaviour became life threatening at which point we were allocated a family support worker. We started to realise that her behaviour was anxiety driven and she was in fight or flight mode. What turned things round was establishing strict boundaries (school attendance, attitude towards family, no screens after 11pm, adhering to curfew and sharing locations) screen time was removed for violating any agreed boundary as we have full control of her phone through Family Sharing. It was painful (sheer hell!) for around the first 6-8 weeks but it has really paid off. She now says is relieved that we stepped in and we have stopped the self-destruction.

She used to say the most awful, awful things too but we just grey rocked her and didn't rise to it. Consistency is paramount. She also gained rewards for good behaviour which incentivised her.

Life is so different one year on. She's far from perfect, but she is more respectful and spending time with her is enjoyable. I feel we are repairing our relationship and she knows we will love and support her without judgment.

I wish you all the best OP as navigating these tricky teenage years is without doubt the hardest thing I have ever dealt with. It's not easy and I hope you can get some support in place to help you help your daughter

She sounds a bit like my friend's daughter who has PDA. She was like that before teens though. It's really tough on the mum.

Great post. Similiar situation and same late ADHD diagnosis. I wish I had seen the behaviour as anxiety based earlier rather than just terrible behaviour- if I had I think I would have dealt with it better

That can be true, but in girls it can show up in ways that aren’t spotted.

@Howthehell24 can you describe in more detail what she was like when she was younger?

you said she was a very ‘biddable’ child - what do you mean by that

what were her toddler tantrums like?

did she get upset or angry between ages 4ish to when this started?

how has her sleep and eating been?

what was she like as a younger child? What did she enjoy?

your post is pretty self centred tbh - focusing on a terrible thing that is happening to you. Which it is, and you have my sympathy.

BUT

this behaviour isn’t normal.

it’s your job as a parent to trace what’s driving it

get curious, start reading and researching

irs great CAHMS etc are involved (I am close to a family with similar struggles and they’ve got very little back from those routes). But you have to be pro active and assertive with all those services

the family I know the DD has just being diagnosed as ASD via private assessment

Looking back there WERE signs there much younger but not the obvious (ie male) ones and it never showed up at school

parents denied or themselves for too long there was something going on

and the two parents have very different styles.

one too authoritarian and ‘you’ll learn to behave (and be normal)’

one too permissive and people
pleasing - also wanted to be ‘best friends’ and is crushed by the hurtful things she says.

neither were meeting her needs

the contradiction between the two made everything worse

you have to be the sea wall
on which their waves break.

as said up thread you have to manage your reactions to her anger and not give it power.

clear firm consistent boundaries.

the following you around with shouting and violence is a dis functional way of seeking connection with you

She’s certainly feeling scared and ashamed which will be feeding her anger.

You need to look deeper

Is it possible she is being exploited or abused online?

Do you suspect neurodiversity? (My child is autistic and can be incredibly rude when overwhelmed)

Sounds awful op i have some experience or this and all the feeble advice about boundsries is just unhelpful. People need to understand some children stand outside the norm and cant be parented in a normal way

If she has symptoms of autism read about pda

The out of school thing sounds definitely like it might impact a ND child more

Did she spend a lot of time unsupervised online

Jesus how insensitive to call the op self centered. She is exhausted from giving all of herself to this child and their moods. You can have no idea unless you live with it. And im sure the op has tried to get to the bottom of it !!! She is here letting off steam

When you have a child who is rude or violent believe me everyone has an opinion

Explosive Child by Ross Green is really good.

Also if it helps you can see the wild behaviour as evidence she is coping/managing. A bit like a giant sized baby when they scream for attention.

Lots of neurodiverse girls the wheels fall off when they go to secondary/ hit puberty and sometimes the anger is their fight/flight response to anxiety/overwhelm m/not coping.

SpectrumGaming do a fantastic "meltdowns" resource which talks about the fight/flight /anger/shutdowns as well as ways to respond not to heighten the meltdown and to help the hurting child.

OP, I’m sorry to ask but is there any possibility she’s been a victim of abuse? It can be associated with a sudden change of behaviour.

I have not read all the posts so I’m sorry if I’m repeating anyone else.
When did her periods start?
Is this constant? Or could it be linked to hormones?
https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/premenstrual-dysphoric-disorder-pmdd/about-pmdd/#:~:text=Premenstrual%20dysphoric%20disorder%20(PMDD)%20is,to%20as%20'severe%20PMS'.
as a child my best friend had a sister who behaved much as you describe.
She went from being a loving daughter and sister to an absolute nightmare in her teen years. There was no issues within the family that could be attributed to the change.
She was later diagnosed this menstrual disorder.
Just a thought.

@Smartiepants79 Yes, thanks, this is one thing for the GP to investigate once I can get her there. I’ve read about it on here before.

@Rainallnight I don’t think so. We have asked in a non-direct, child friendly way and are told no but it’s something else always at the back of your mind.

@waterrat Thank you. It sounded unfair. I spend so much time talking about, thinking about, dealing with other people talking about and generally trying to manage this situation that I thought here would be a safe place to release thoughts I can’t say aloud but perhaps I’m wrong…but then maybe I just need to Do Better.

So this has started this year?

Fingers crossed it is a very extreme adolescence, perhaps with some ND, rather than a deeper issue. It may be hard to believe now, but there is a decent chance she will be throufh

Is there any sanction that might help stop the physical violence? I am sure she needs individual therapy and assessment but it seems to be you really need support within the family to impose some sanctions that begin to bring in basic boundaries. Has anyone talked about this? Could you afford to explore and pay for it?

And yes agree it's exhausting and you really do need to make your own self care a priority as you need that in order to give to your child. Can't pour from an empty cup and all that, especially when it's difficult.

.. I should say that I was a bit like this as a teen (minus the physical violence and school refusal) - some kids just are, which is why I think it might pass. I was just full of rage and confusion and fear.

I really don’t think she’s ND. Whilst she has a few classic traits, she does not display many many more. All the professional leap on it at the outset. It’s an easy answer to avoid deeper analysis. A close relative who has known her well all her life and is a psychiatrist says no too but if you resist the possible ND diagnosis, everyone assumes you are irrationally resistant/sticking your head in the sand/ not acting in her best interests. Even if she is, we need to be able to mange her better now regardless.

I don’t know if it helps, but child development theory indicates that rebelling from parents during teen years is actually quite healthy. They are trying to be more independent and rely less on parents. Some teens do it in a more extreme manner than others. If kids don’t go through this stage they end up being those weird kids that stay at home forever. Maybe when she pushes you away with her hurtful words remind yourself that she’s trying to be independent, albeit in an unpleasant way for you.
If it were me I would write a list of consequences on the fridge so she can see it daily eg, swear at me - no lifts to see friends, or no wifi password for 24 hours etc.

Thing is sanctions won't work if it's meltdown/explosive related violence. Its like the explosion has already been set off.

the nest approach - Branston Community Academy https://branstonca.lincs.sch.uk/wp-content/uploads/Spectrum-Gaming-Autism-and-Meltdowns9838.pdf.pdf

This is a really good document and would apply equally well to trauma related meltdowns etc although written with autism in mind.

The explosive child really is a good book too written about any explosive child

The thing is if rules and sanctions worked with these children they would have done. And although you still need the rules they really do need a different approach (if you keep doing what you've always done you get what you've always got etc).

It's a bit like working with an injured puppy- calm the environment down, reduce demands and expectations and remove triggers as much as possible as in the immediate term were looking to stop inflating the fire and bring calm. Even though we feel the hurt and anger, we're the adult so it's us that's going to have to fake it til we make it .

I find it so incredibly difficult. But the alternative is worse.

And yes even without the nd diagnosis she's obviously not regulating emotions/coping with life /managing for whatever reason is going on with her. The explosive child isn't specific to nd and some of the approaches for autistic overwhelm would "work" or could be used as her brain is obviously wired differently or not coping even if it isn't in an autistic way.

@Sunflower8848 This is an idea I had this morning! What’s stopped me is that the last time I imposed a sanction, I was dragged around the kitchen by my hair (which is gradually falling out as it’s been pulled so often). So whilst I like the theory, the practice is less successful.

@ThreeBeanChilli Your posts are really kind and helpful. Thank you, I will get that book.

If it helps at all she did come through it.
She is now very close with her mum and sisters.
It was several awful years though. It was quite damaging for her younger siblings.