How do you make yourself love them when your heart isn’t in it?

[Howthehell24]

I’ve NC for this but have written on here over the last year about my DD’s awful behaviour. She’s 13. It’s ranged from rudeness/swearing through destruction of property to assault/violence against me, DH and her younger sibling. It’s been relentless. The police, school, SS and CAMHS are al involved with little by way of improvement to date. She’s currently refusing school too.. There is zero contrition on her part.

Everything I read says that you need to keep loving them, to show it’s unconditional and assumes that you’ll be able to do just that but I can’t. She’s hurt me so much both physically and mentally (has said terrible, terrible things to me and tells me daily how much she hates me) that I feel bereaved. The child I loved is gone. I look at her now and feel nothing. Indifference. Watching my friends’ kids of the same age over the holidays - having fun, being together, just ‘being’ - was akin to seeing people with their dads after mine died. How do you get back the feeling? What if I can’t? Just suck it up for 5 years of transactional exchanges - ‘give me data and I won’t hit you’ - then be happy when she leaves at 18? It’s too depressing to contemplate.

Name changed for this for obvious reasons. I was where you are for years with my youngest son he has ADHD. Violence in the home, terrible things said, stole our car, drugs, police and worse that I won’t go into here no social work involvement as we were “ a nice family” he was totally off the scale. Left school at 16 got sacked from his apprenticeship and then every job he had. We asked him to leave at 18 he got council accommodation because he was homeless. Nothing he did to us made me stop loving him but things he did to other people did. The feelings have not come back even years later, we see him regularly now and have financially and emotionally supported him for years, I do all the right things but no I don’t love him. It breaks my heart as I’m the sort of person who finds it easy to love and I’ve had counselling to help me deal with my feelings.

You have barely mentioned her dad, who should be sharing this awful burden with you 50/50.
Where is he in all this? Does he know how desperate you rightly feel?

This is a kind of grief, @Howthehell24 .
It is similar to that felt by parents when their children are given a diagnosis of anything - the idea that "this isn't what I signed up for". There was a thread on here not long ago about a mother (usually a mother...) feeling a kind of weird mixture of grief and sadness (even guilt?) that her child had glasses!
I'd seriously recommend some private weekly therapy for you alone. Pay for it. Make your DH see how important it is. Begin asap. It is an investment to keep your family together - you can't pour from an empty cup.
I was going to say your younger DC needs you, but then I thought Hell no, YOU need you!

@Polkadotmug Thos is exactly where I think we are heading hence the post. From your experience, the love might not return. Thanks for your honesty. This is what breaks my heart when I ruminate on these events. We were once so close. She was my buddy. And now we are here.

If she has ASD then frequently CAMHS won't work with children with ASD as they claim it is untreatable.

However, if that is the road they are suggesting then it is worth contacting the national autistic society as they run support groups for parents which are quite useful.

ASD teenagers also frequently have difficulties expressing emotions and it comes out as violence and or hatred. You might find reading about zones of regulation useful.

If this is the case she is probably anxious as well. Anti anxiety drugs can help with this and are also likely to moderate the behaviour.

@Peasnbeans Thank you. DH is right here. He feels the same way. He knows. He is treated the same way by her. We are both broken but united.

It's heartbreaking

Books that helped me:

From anxiety to meltdown by Deborah Lipsky

The anxiety workbook for teens by Lisa Schwab

and written by an autistic girl

How to be autistic by Charlotte Amelia Poe.

Meant with kindness - you say "she was your buddy" - this is now where you step back. She needs you to be her parent. Parents have firm boundaries, they are not their child's 'friends' in the sense they need to allow their child not to feel bound by that relationship.
Like an earlier OP said - when you are in 'parent' mode it is much easier to step back and be neutral when they are screeching 'i hate you I wish you died of cancer'. Parent mode response is 'what an awful thing to say. But, I'm not, and I'm still here, and still your parent. Dinner is at 6pm' and then walk away / return to your previous conv with others / your dinner prep or whatever.
'Parent' mode is like armour, or like playing a role in a job. When she's gone you can go and have a private response, but aged ,12/13 it helps her to see her words have not as much power as she thinks.
'buddy/loving friend' mode means that you are unprepared - the words are shocking and hurt and as you say, you 'challenge anyone to stay calmly neutral when hearing those sort of comments'
So you respond, she responds, you respond and you are stuck in a tennis match that she will not be able to lose - her young teenage brain isn't fully formed and doesn't yet have the nuances or the skills. Plus by then you are both in your reactive 'lizard' brain.
You started this thread by saying you read everywhere that she needs to still feel you love her, and you are right. And it is very, very tough.
Keep on keeping on, and like someone else said, pick your battles. She sounds bright, she'll learn without PE kit reminders.

Can you pay for a private assessment for ASD?
I know this is said a lot on here, but often with girls, they plod along from age 0-12, able to “mask” and then sadly it all falls apart when you add puberty and the teenage years.

I know of one other family where the son behaved exactly like your dd. It was heartbreaking. The language and violence. He was diagnosed with ADHD, and medicated, and was like a new child. It was actually unbelievable.
previous to that, his parents were anti-medication, but there was no choice.
Obviously I don’t know if that is or will be the case for your dd.

Your dd has had a wonderfully safe and supportive upbringing with a lot of engaged and loving parental involvement.

Has she ever been exposed to the lives of children who are not so fortunate? Via for example, books, films, tv, theatre, true crime podcasts? I realise a lot of that content won't be age appropriate, but some might be, for instance the book Goodnight Mister Tom.

Do you think if she could understand how awful, neglectful and abusive some parents actually are, and compare that to her own situation, that she might be able to self-reflect at all?

So she wasn't like this at all when she was younger? That makes me think she maybe has a hormonal imbalance, like PMDD, or something like that? Has she agreed to any blood tests or anything of that sort. Has she ever admitted that she's struggling emotionally? I suspect I'd be hounding her for answers as to why she's changed/how she's feeling, why she's so nasty.

What an awful thing to say. She sounds horrendous OP, I’m so sorry you are going through that. Any idea what triggered it? A trauma or bereavement? Bullying? I hope you get some help and RL support. Is your younger child more normal? He must be struggling too.

Also made me think of PDA. If you read up on PDA, and it sounds like that could be it. A good thing to try is using 'declarative language' to communicate. The Declarative Language Handbook is a short read.

People are rushing to autism or adhd. I have two family members with autism and it doesn't just show up one day. It's their from birth. Op says her dd was a biddable child. It seems unlikely she's just evolve.

I was a nightmare teenager. My parents had quite a dysfunctional marriage and it was a lot to do with that. But also I was deeply unhappy at school. I wasn't violent but I could be very cruel. I definitely had anxiety issues.

I think my point is that labelling her and testing her for stuff to explain away her behaviour won't necessarily help.

I feel for you OP. Is there any possibility she sustained a concussion in the past year or so? We have friends whose child had a couple of concussions playing football and her personality really took a dive - very similar to what you are describing.

I agree with other posters who suggest picking your battles. Like Octavia64 said

Ideally you want her

1 alive. So if anything triggers self harming don't do it
2 not hitting you
So if anything triggers hitting you don't do it.

I also wonder if she is getting a thrill from your reactions to her comments. I think you should start trying to fake boredom when she kicks off. no matter what awful thing she says to you say "whatever" in a fairly bored tone and continue doing what you are doing. If she hits you, you and your husband should tell her that the next time she does that you WILL call the police. And do it.

A couple of things that have been helpful.

Taking on the role of the ultra calm parent and acting my socks off (not always achievable, I'll readily admit) as @Peasnbeans suggested.

Listening and responding to the emotion NOT the words. So she says something awful, you say 'you seem really angry, I wonder why?' etc

Asking her what she needs as a response to the vitriol. It's quite a hard question to answer but ultimately her behaviour is telling you she needs something and she needs to figure out what that is.

Practice how you want to respond in your head first and you stand a better chance of it working.

This OP.
And look up advice given to other victims of abuse.

Oh and - it's really bloody hard.

You mention that she often repeats hurtful things - for your own mental protection I’d have some ready, neutral/bored comebacks ready that don’t address the content of her comments but more the fact she goes on about them - something like “yes, you’ve said that before” or “how many more times will you repeat that?”. She will be furious of course but she’s already furious. At least you are then armed with a way to avoid it hitting you so hard emotionally and to stop is escalating. Or if she says “I hate you” you say “ok”. Don’t deny her feelings or argue back. It must be very hard to listen to though. You have my sympathy.

Think these are helpful links. Speaking from experience my own anxiety made me behave in a way (shouting, throwing food around etc.) that made my dad cry... don't think I've ever seen him cry before but seeing him like that was a "bucket of water over the face" moment for me in that I woke up from what I was doing. I went into another room and spent what must have been 10 minutes staring at the ceiling. While others need medication to alter their behaviour, it was the shock that snapped me out of it.

So sorry to you OP (and everyone who is experiencing awful behaviour) but in my experience some interjection needs to happen when it gets really bad. Typical teenage behaviour you just ride it out, but when it gets extreme you need extreme measures. Medication (for anxiety) would definitely have helped in my case but the shock of that moment was sufficient to wake me up from what I was doing. Before that I was in autopilot, in a set way of thinking. My brother threatened to section me (and tbh with justification I could have been). Without any interjection I dont see how my awful behaviour could have changed.

I’m really not sure about the faking ‘boredom’ approach. It’s not a boring situation. You aren’t bored. That would make a child’s low self esteem worse no? Their distress and rage is boring. Calm and practical would be better, surely.

So when they scream ‘I hate you!’, you always say on autopilot: ‘Ok that’s a shame, I love you. Tell me about what’s upsetting you if you can, or if you don’t want to talk it’s dinner time at 7.30. I’m going off to cook, see you in a bit.’

I had a tough time with my daughter, too. It was as though she changed overnight. At the start of her first year at high school she would still sit on my knee and stroke my hair. By half term she was raging.

The horrible thing is that you can't say anything back because you know only too well how hurtful it is. I did say once to my daughter, "I hope when you're older you have a daughter just like you." She said, "Well, that's not very nice!" I thought well if you were nice, that would be a lovely thing to say!

It's like having a relationship where you're incredibly happy and love them to bits, and then they turn against you and say the most awful things and you can't retaliate and you can't leave. It's really awful.

I'd make sure I spent part of every evening out of the house, tbh.

Think that's a great point too...perspective. Many of us don't have it. We get caught up in our own little world and don't see the bigger picture.

I think it should be part of the school curriculum that we spend a week helping out in a homeless shelter, hospital ward, or (even further afield) in a developing country. Without perspective we become self centred, selfish and ungrateful for what we do have. A parent reminding their child about their PE kit and is met with f--- off... the child has no grasp on reality (I know there's other issues at play, namely mental hence it being anxiety in my case...but perspective gives you an inbuilt buffer that can prevent you from going too far/extreme with your behaviour).

Op, I'm so sorry x

Google grey rock technique for when she's being vile

If you feel suicidal please reach out to papyrus-uk.org

I could have written your post.

I had to go on medication during the school years, I’ve come off it now but I needed to take the edge off.

At times I could feel the hatred inside my body for the situation we were in.

I was jealous of my friends and my child’s peers.

I stopped going anywhere socially as it was so stressful incase I got a call and needed to get home ASAP.

My child was never physically. It was shouting. Constant shouting. Constant drama.

Draining. Absolutely draining.