Horrible. Spoilt. Entitled. My teenage daughter

[Helllpme]

Sorry for the long post and thank you for your time.
My teenage daughter is ruining our family and I don’t know where to turn. A CAMHS consultant psychiatrist says she isn’t suffering from mental illness although they can’t definitively rule out neurodevelopment disorders. She accused her loving father, my husband of sexual assault. To dispel any doubts the police said they have no reason to believe her account.
We are walking on egg shells around her. She self harms at least once a week. There have been A&E trips because she needs stitching or antidotes administering.
Her behaviour at school is also extreme. She has no friends to speak off.

We’re middle class and have offered her a good upbringing. She talks as though she feels incredibly sorry for herself and is very entitled. We’ve had many a conversation with her about taking some responsibility.

I don’t know what to do. CAMHS aren’t interested and neither is social services. She’s on the cusp of getting kicked out of school because of her disruptive behaviours. I’ve fallen out of love with her and I am incredibly stressed and sad.

Pay for a private teen psychologist to unpick this. You can find someone, who will come to the house and talk to you, advise and counsel in your own home… or recommend a course of action for your dd.

And do not completely close your mind to the fact she may not be lying.

Sadly, Mumsnet is not the place for advice, you can't discuss personality disorders / conduct disorders in young people. Many people are in denial, I guess it's too much of an emotive subject, I'd suggest researching elsewhere, and yes I am aware that young people can't be diagnosed with a personality disorder. If what the OP is saying is true, that is what I would be thinking about.

When did the behaviour start was it sudden?
You need to reflect really hard on whether the allegations could be true and the implication on your relationship forever if you choose to believe your partner over your daughter.
I can’t see how everyone is washing their hands of a child that is so clearly mentally unwell. What does she do all day? What does she do after school?

Ummm 🧐

Not sure I could put my husband over my utterly distressed daughter who has made an accusation of SA against her own father.
Her actions scream distress.
You sound like you hate her..
I feel sorry for her.
She needs your unconditional love and support.
My daughter would always come above her father.

No I haven’t because I think she was accessing proana content amoung other toxic stuff. She’s 15. I’d give it back if she allowed me to check.

She is clearly desperately unhappy. If CAMHS have pronounced her mentally well then they have failed her, which is no surprise as they are not fit for purpose; she needs to see a psychiatrist. Of course she is mentally unwell. I know from experience how horrendous your situation is, my eldest hurt us deeply when they were acutely mentally ill, but to be blunt, you don't have the luxury of "falling out of love with her" you need to develop a tough skin and get her some help. She is heading for a breakdown. The allegations against your husband may or may not be true, I cannot possibly judge at this distance, but something is very seriously wrong. If you've exhausted what little the NHS can offer, can you afford a private psychiatrist?

Just to give a different view
Although lying about assault is rare and people should be believed I know this happened with my step daughter.
Her father would not let her do something which was unsafe and she told him
“If you don’t let me then I am going to call social services and pretend you assaulted me”
She was a nightmare for a time but is now a successful and happy adult

If you truly believe this, not much will get through to you.

your poor dd - the signs for SA are there and you ignore her.

I do understand your fear - ours said some awful things about us when unwell - but it needs to happen anyway or you are going to lose her.

I’ve been reading r/BPDlovedones but I didn’t really feel my circumstances are a good match.

@YourTruthorMine

Most women who have been diagnosed with the bullshit disorder that is borderline personality disorder have experienced sexual abuse. My own Nan had that ridiculous label after being raped by her father. It’s a ridiculous label. No one’s personality is disordered, nine times out of ten the female has complex post traumatic stress disorder.

Say for example, this was true and the daughter came out with it for shits and giggles, you would at least pay for private therapy right? Gotta be a bit fucked in the head to make that shit up. Oh no, but mum is worried of therapy because it might “put ideas into her head” and she thinks being middle class means this can’t be true.

I actually despair.

Do you not think there could be some truth and something HAS happened?
I knew someone who was SA by her step father ; her mother refused to believe her .
It didn’t end well.

Are you going to engage with people telling you your dd needs private mental health intervention now? Right now!

I have a 15 yo. Their heightened emotions are totally real and you’re heading for disaster.

I am also concern that a therapist might prescribe her drugs. We where obliged to see the psych, I don’t want to bring those circumstances on us again.

I know of other teenagers on meds and the outcomes are dire

She doesn’t need medicating to shut her up into compliance. She needs to be listened too.

Anyway, I’m out.

What interventions or strategies have you tried? When can you connect most with her? What does she enjoy?

Give her phone back and consider there may be an element of truth in an allegation of SA or it at least needs a lot of support and professional help. You shouldn’t fear third party intervention. False allegations can happen in a number of complex situations or conditions or for reasons otherwise and they will be aware of this but don’t completely dismiss her and also cut her off from potentially sources of support and connection on her phone.

Kindly, @Helllpme --

you don't want her to see a 1:1 professional to help her with her mental state
you don't want her on medication
you don't feel able to support her yourself
you acknowledge that she has no other external support

what do you actually want for her? What do you want to do? What do you want other people to suggest?

So she's been sexually abused (allegedly)
Self harms on a weekly basis
Has no friends
Is at risk of permanent exclusion and her own mother has "fallen out of love with her" and refuses to get counselling for her in case it puts ideas in her head.

And you wonder why she isn't very pleasant to be around.

She sounds like she's in a lot of pain...how on Earth have CAHMS concluded that she doesn't have any mental health issues?

No wonder you're stressed. What a horrible situation.

Of course there's no easy answer. However, my advice is to focus on what you CAN control.

She is old enough that she is going to say what she's going to say. You do have a lot of control over her in terms of money. There are many bad decisions she can't make if she can't afford to, so I recommend you make sure she has very little money. If you currently give her cash for lunches and transportation, I'd switch to pre-paying where possible.

Here's what I think you need to consider very carefully without automatically dismissing it. Again, I feel sorry for you and am saying this in the hope of helping with a solution.

I have never, ever encountered a troubled kid from a perfect background. There must be a problem somewhere. If it's not psychological, then that increases the likelihood that it's about the home. You need to take a good, hard look at the situation at home. Is there a parent with a hair-trigger temper and unkind words? Is there yelling? Is there drinking? Is there a sibling with challenging needs? Is there poverty? Is there someone who is overwhelmed with work stress or depressed? Does she have a weight problem that causes her to be bullied? Is she struggling with schoolwork?

For me, there's a clue in your comments about her. They're harsh but there's no attempt at deeper insight. You go into detail about how you're reacting to her. You say her behaviour at school is extreme. But there's no speculation whatsoever about what's going on and no evidence you've asked her where all this is coming from. That's a red flag. Is it about not wanting to type it all out or have you really never wondered about what her problems actually are?

Please ask her.

Can you afford to get a family therapist who can start hashing this out? YOU and your husband are going to have to be willing to accept criticism and act on it if you want to have a chance at improving this situation. It is not going to work to sit back and point the finger at her. It is possible that something in the home is causing this and because she is the one with the least power to change anything and the least maturity to process the situation, the frustration is coming out in bad behaviour.

I think that when a family dynamic is damaged to such an extreme, it makes sense to give everyone a break. Is there any kind of programme you could send her on or a relative you could send her to where she could calm down a bit and fill her days with new activities? Start asking around at your GP and local churches and youth organizations. It's so hard to get a place on anything these days but give it a try. If you don't get anywhere, ask her what fun hobbies she might want to do and if you can afford to sign her up, do (to give her a break from her usual situations at home and school). Good luck.

It sounds like you're trying to avoid engaging with solutions - psychological interventions, medication - because you don't want to accept that this is really happening. You need to get your head in the game before it's too late - she isn't putting it on and she isn't going to just snap out of it. Outcomes for teenagers who take medication prescribed for mental illness are actually much better than outcomes for mentally ill teenagers who don't get any help at all. Suicide is a real possibility here. Please, wake up, get over your squeamishness and start advocating for your child. Listen to her and don't brush off what she is telling you.

I wasn't actually talking about borderline personality disorder, there are others, Unless you have a close family member with one of these 'conditions' then it's probably difficult to understand.