Life with teenagers is joyless

[Courgeon]

I'm not enjoying being a parent of my 2 teenagers dd 16 and ds 13. They're not especially badly behaved but they are grumpy, rude, ungrateful and just generally rubbish company. Sorry! Completely wasted money booking nice Christmas events this year just got scowled at and asked when home. Dd does not join in with family life AT ALL never comes anywhere with us stays in her room most of the time doesn't even eat with us.

Ds started getting same attitude doesn't chat with us and dislikes everything he used to enjoy doing, cycling, swimming, squash, hiking, reading, games are now all boring. They do at least have a hobby each that they do fairly intensively and enjoy. They are so different we can't do anything together. Spent £££ going to London to go to a West end show dd enjoyed, DS scowled throughout.

Holidays are a complete other level of stress and drama and makes me really sad. DH can be a bit tricky on holiday as well, it's way too intense and uncomfortable just being the 4 of us but they won't go off together and make holiday friends in resorts etc, don't want to go anywhere. I've resigned myself to solo holidays for a bit which is pretty shit, DH can't come with as they're too young to both be left at home and grandparents aren't an option. Despite me taking DDS friends away with us multiple times it's not been reciprocated and as I find it incredibly stressful I'm not doing that again. We could take a mate for DS this August but that really impacts my enjoyment as I just can't relax looking after someone else's kid.

I just feel any joy has been sucked out of family life, they can't be bothered with Xmas and have been really rude that I shouldn't have bought them anything as they don't like presents.

They both stay in a lot as well and are literally a really heavy presence in the house. Drives me a bit mad as I went out loads more at their age. Know I could do some kind of limitation of devices and force them to do family stuff but I just can't be bothered with the battle and the sullen sulky faces and blood out of a stone conversations. Not looking forward to Xmas and extremely fed up.

With the greatest of respect, you are 20 and i assime dont have children.

I am only 37 years old myself. I have a child who is nearly 16 and another who is 10.

My approach around screen time has worked and my eldest is popular, has a large group of friends, is often out and about socialising (I obviously give her the money for this) and she is doing well at school. I do not recognise the "typical teenager" behaviour many on here describe in my own children. Granted, my son is still only 10 and he is definitely going to be more of a challenge as a teenager because of his personality. But in terms of what I have seen works for my daughter, I speak from experience.

I was personally a tearaway as a teen and I put it down to not spending enough time with my family and not knowing my parents as people iyswim.

This is a really useful insight. They're both pretty good at budgeting their pocket money and will save for cafés/cinema trips ice skating etc which they do and enjoy as we live in a pretty vibrant area with excellent public transport. I lived a crap adolescence in the middle of the countryside with strict but disinterested parents and hated it. Hence creating my own entertainment going to nightclubs underage. Certainly not whimsical I was bored out my brain!

I think there are separate issues here.

Modern teenagers spend much more time at home under their parents feet than any previous generation...going back to the dawn of humanity! This isnt natural or healthy...teens in most times in history and in many non western cultures now ..are far more independent by 15. School used to only go up to 14.....

I think teenagers are miserable and grumpy and parents are pissed off because of this very unnatural intensity...and people come on and suggest board games!

Of course family matters but i think the answer is to really focus on getting teens out with their friends more hard as that is ....

I think we infantilasise young people now...children dont develop as much independence and then teenagers are all forced to stay in education until they are 17 or 18 ...when many would before have beem happy working before thst.

So many young people you read about on mumsnet who dont want to even get a job.....but then are clearly really hnhappy slopping about st home

Anyway op its a tough time...dont feel bad for backing off a bit. I do think the screens are bad for them...but its winter and its always harder to find alternatives now

Switch the Broadband off for a set time each day. Even if they throw a strop, they can either stop in their room bored for 3-4 hours or they can begin to learn to behave like young adults and have a conversation or simply go and have a shower!!
I wouldn't necessarily plan activities unless they say it something that they would like to do - you wouldn't catch me going to a footy match so I wouldn't go unless you got me seats in the directors box with free food and booze for the duration!! I suspect your teenagers may feel a bit like that!!

Completely agree with you about the intensity, that's how I feel! My mate is a single parent with a lovely but demanding 16 year old DD and she pulls her hair out as the dd just doesn't go out... Drives her mad...! Even as I shy somewhat weird rural dwelling introvert I managed to go out more!

Me and DS are going to cafe Nero Friday morning for breakfast, his favourite café. There's loads of "cooler" café options but that's a perfect compromise.

Dd tougher nut to crack. Maybe just leave her to come round, if I suggested board games she'd go and hide them all!

Erm they do shower both quite fastidious about it and both pretty good with a routine. Writing about them now has helped me focus on their good bits...

I’d also recommend encouraging your DD to look for a summer job starting next spring, as the decent ones get snapped up quickly. My DD started her first job at a local restaurant last summer and it’s taught her so much interacting with other adults in the workplace. She’s lucky that her boss is Mum to young adult children and is great with teenagers- DD has really matured since having a job (she only works 8 hrs/week during term time).

I would deal with the rudeness. Could you get your DD to cook a meal once a week. But I don’t think you can force family time on teens.

I didn’t have technology growing up (1970s/80s). I do wonder what I did. I recall sitting in my bedroom a lot reading and a bit of crafting. Saturdays we would hang out at the shopping centre go to the cinema etc, All very dull, Now they talk to friends on phones. I’m not really sure if I agree with all this screen time we have (as I sit on MN). But each generation is different.

Why are you so obsessed with family time? This pulling away stuff is normal and has to be dealt with with humour. Stop the activities with them and start with the chores and contributing to the family by getting stuck into the day today running of the house.

Teens usually naturally detach from their parents, it's an important part of growing up. They usually come back later on. Tackle the rudeness and any entitlement instead. Your job is to prepare them for the adult world.

Dd just come and very politely asked me to help her with her statement for 6th form college! She didn't used to tolerate me helping her so maybe this thread is working it's magic!

@Courgeon sounds like a plan with your DS, and I’m sure your DD wouldn’t be averse to some mum and daughter shopping trips in the January sales! Oh, and when the time is right, tell the kids some tales from those hacienda days! My kids didn’t believe me until I produced photographic evidence, and my best mate added a few stories in herself 😅. Forget being appreciated for the 18+ years off effort I put in raising them at the time, a few tales from my past instantly promoted me to legend status!!

So true. Mine are healthy young men but certainly do not go out as much as I did late 1970s and I wasn’t a wild child. They sit on the phones communicating with friends but you wonder if we are doing this generation any favours.

It does pass, OP.
Mine went through the vile phase, and I tried to keep my sense of humour about how outrageously unreasonable and hurtful they could be.
We kept family dinners going and they had chores; these were non negotiable. But the rest of the time, they were mostly skulking in their rooms or out with friends, as is a normal developmental thing. Sometimes I minded and sometimes, it was blessed respite.
We had bedroom computers but no phones to contend with, although we did have a no books at the table rule.
Somewhere along the line, they turned into reasonable human beings and are lovely now.

Working with teens more recently, we had to have a no phones at the table and during meetings rule, even though they found this immensely difficult, otherwise they would have barely been able to participate.
The relief when they got back on to the phone after the meeting!
I don't think it would be reasonable to restrict phone use much more than this, as it has obviously become the most important thing for conforming to peer group and communication.

DS (15) has a dog to walk most days but other than that we don't force him to join in board games with the rest of the family. We leave him to his PC playing games or chatting online with school friends. He does go on family day trips most of the time. There has been times when he chooses to stay at home though.

If you’re happy then that’s great. But you posted saying that your DD won’t have anything to do with any of you and you didn’t seem happy with that. I agree it’s a funny time and all I meant was that if you want them to spend a bit of time with you you might have to muster up some enthusiasm about their interests.

The point I was trying to make is just to do something other just gaming or online stuff. Walking the dog if you have one or just joining you for a coffee in the kitchen encourages sociability even if they don't talk too much. You are lucky in that fastidiousness is not an issue - in many homes it is!! lol!!
You already focus on their good points and can make it known that they are part of a loving family to which they contribute to as well. They have their own interests which is good too but is still something they can bring to a family chat.
Growing up - evening family meal time was the one time we all spoke or argued (if you like) and if friends were there too they joined in. That time was pretty much set in stone and even now as adults with grown children we still have 'Sobremesa' a chat over the table - sometimes short - done in ten minutes and sometimes - only ended after a few bottles of wine or endless cups of tea!!
It is just flexible family time. As for holidays - board games?? Some families do them and some don't! My DH just does not do board or card games - the family accept that and he goes off to do his own thing even we play all night long!!

What a lovely supportive post @Bizcoach23

OP I am also offering solidarity and support. After having 2 relatively easy teen dds (who are now 21 and 19), I am faced with a very challenging teen who is now 15. She is also autistic so add meltdowns into the mix.

I would agree with watching stuff on TV with them, things they want to watch even though we find it utter shite!

Had such a horrible conversation with my 17yo ds that I would happily have given him his Xmas presents today. We have these conversations a lot. I overcompensate for exh. I half funded 18yo driving lessons and want to do the same for 17yo ds but his attitude to it and to me are horrendous and atm I don't like him at all. He only spoke to me nicely afterwards because he needs help with some paperwork for an overseas trip and he's also just asked me for a lift to an out of town football match...I laughed. Both ds can be horrible and then they can be great. Ds 18 is in Uni and I'd like to say that ds 17 is being an arse because his brother is back...its not true, he's always like it with me and I genuinely wonder what I have done to deserve being treated so badly by him.

Clinging on here with two teens. Eldest (16) is usually lovely and chatty but youngest (13) is in her room most of the time. She will come down if I offer a specific activity though.

My top tips (for what they’re worth):

• Take an interest in their world. Friends/boys they life/school work/dramas going on etc. Otherwise when there’s a development they can’t be arsed to tell you
• Don’t force them to spend loads of time with you or their siblings if they don’t want to
• Understand where they’re coming from. This has been the biggest one for me. When dd13 is being vile, I remind myself that she is feeling irritated by everything (I know how that feels 😂) and she’s just struggling to hide her feelings in the way we do as adults. Knowing this helps me to empathise with her and cut her some slack. Rudeness isn’t tolerated though - they all know there’s zero tolerance for that.

The hardest thing for me is limited money as I’m a lone parent and don’t earn that much. If I had the money I would take them shopping more, out for a coffee/lunch etc as I know they enjoy that. Unfortunately funds won’t allow.

This thread perfect timing for me coming into Christmas. Thanks so much for all the good advice.
I thought a few bottles of Lynx would see me through, I was so wrong, but things are definitely looking up.

There's a massive difference between the I interests of a 16 y/o girl and a 13y/o boy at this stage and I think they need different strategies. Girls tend to be more mature / advanced at this age anyway. I know at 16 I was desperate to be seen as grown up and independent. What opportunities does your dd have for that? Does she have a job yet? This would give her some purpose and some understanding of money. It might also encourage her to go out and socialise a bit more. I would even suggest her being left at home next time you go away, just take your son. Give her some responsibility (if you are sure she won't trash the house having a party). She will come back to you when she has become more independent. Your son probably does need to reduce his screen time and be made to get out and about with you doing some active stuff. You might find if you reduce to pressure to participate in family life with your daughter she might become more engaged.

She's very anxious about her GCSEs, she does work hard, almost too hard. But yes I think she needs a job for when she finishes, she needs one, she recognises that having no money and no routine isn't helpful but it's just getting her to pursue getting one! She'd be hard working once she was in it, just think she has some mild social anxiety about approaching people.

Re holidays were going on a UK based holiday in August only 2 hours drive from home and she'll stay at home to look after the cats! I wouldn't drag her on that kind of holiday again...

I have got two DS 14 and 17, I am also a bit of an introvert and like my own time. I am quite liking this stage where they are happy doing their own thing as I can do mine, so go out yourself for a walk, to swim or shop etc. Sometimes I ask if anyone wants to come but they are usually happy at home. Sometimes they will go out and meet friends.

Why are you forcing them to do things together that they don't want to do ?

They are not little children. They are not there to feature in some fantasy family life you have in your mind. They are teens, growing and struggling with hormones and puberty and changes in bodies and massive changes in their brains. Virtually all teens go through a reclusive period and most come out the other side as wonderful, agreeable adults.
Try and re-frame this stage as when the caterpillar goes into the cocoon before emerging as a butterfly.