Life with teenagers is joyless

[Courgeon]

I'm not enjoying being a parent of my 2 teenagers dd 16 and ds 13. They're not especially badly behaved but they are grumpy, rude, ungrateful and just generally rubbish company. Sorry! Completely wasted money booking nice Christmas events this year just got scowled at and asked when home. Dd does not join in with family life AT ALL never comes anywhere with us stays in her room most of the time doesn't even eat with us.

Ds started getting same attitude doesn't chat with us and dislikes everything he used to enjoy doing, cycling, swimming, squash, hiking, reading, games are now all boring. They do at least have a hobby each that they do fairly intensively and enjoy. They are so different we can't do anything together. Spent £££ going to London to go to a West end show dd enjoyed, DS scowled throughout.

Holidays are a complete other level of stress and drama and makes me really sad. DH can be a bit tricky on holiday as well, it's way too intense and uncomfortable just being the 4 of us but they won't go off together and make holiday friends in resorts etc, don't want to go anywhere. I've resigned myself to solo holidays for a bit which is pretty shit, DH can't come with as they're too young to both be left at home and grandparents aren't an option. Despite me taking DDS friends away with us multiple times it's not been reciprocated and as I find it incredibly stressful I'm not doing that again. We could take a mate for DS this August but that really impacts my enjoyment as I just can't relax looking after someone else's kid.

I just feel any joy has been sucked out of family life, they can't be bothered with Xmas and have been really rude that I shouldn't have bought them anything as they don't like presents.

They both stay in a lot as well and are literally a really heavy presence in the house. Drives me a bit mad as I went out loads more at their age. Know I could do some kind of limitation of devices and force them to do family stuff but I just can't be bothered with the battle and the sullen sulky faces and blood out of a stone conversations. Not looking forward to Xmas and extremely fed up.

Yep I'm not prepared to get into that zone with them now. When they're out/at their hobbies/with friends they're not on a screen. And it would involve me being the activity queen which I'll do to a point but there's no way I'm spending all my time in the house doing activities or planning the same. Now they're older I expect them to entertain themselves, I used to read/paint/walk the dog but I do remember being excruciatingly bored. I think 'limit screens ' is offered as a blanket solution and the kids I know who do have restrictions are junkies for the screens when they get hold of them
I've never been strict about sweets etc and they've always really successfully self regulated.

I would like to bake/watch a film etc with them but I need my quiet down time on days off too. I work in higher education and after several days teaching I need quiet time or my head will explode.

Limit their screen time esp the younger child.

You also mention that you can’t do board games or watch films together because you don’t like the ones they like. Why don’t you suck it up and enter their world for a while? You also mention that the weather isn’t good enough for bike rides and that on holiday you wish they’d go off and meet people. You say you are an introvert who needs downtime. Well, you reap what you sow. Enjoy that downtime because when they leave home you’ll be getting plenty of it.

Instead of spending more money trying to please them why don't you put yourself first and do something you want to do on your own. Your kids sound really ungrateful maybe they would Appreciate you more if you take a step back and build a life for yourself away from the home so much. Let them get on with it is my advice

Thank you this is really helpful! I do need to look after myself through this period and you're so so right that I could have it a lot worse without too much disclosure when I was 16 I was doing a lot more than the odd bit of vodka at friends houses (which is what dd does v occasionally) at a gathering... The stuff I was doing age 16 would warrant a safeguarding referral these days! In the 80s it was normalised though I think!

Do your teenagers do chores on a regular basis, and help out around the house at all?

Why doesn’t your dd eat with you @Courgeon ? Where does she eat?
can you start insisting on family mealtimes and basic manners?
I agree that hours on devices alone won’t be helping with mood/emotional regulation. Do they have access to phones overnight too?
how is their sleep?

In my experience they will be back and these memories will fade. Mine went off for 2-3 years each between 13-15 and now can’t get enough of family time as long as it’s not forced. We all like football and support 3 different teams so that’s a lot of watching football family time!

if you really want to alienate them then of course limit screen time and device time and force them to spend device free time with you.

in the wilderness years the only thing they would both do together was go to Starbucks drive through. So that’s what we did a few times a week after school. I encouraged them to have friends over so they had more than each other to hang out with (they are the classic not friends per se but would die for each other) and did my own thing (single mum 8 years) and kept communication open and checked in regularly with snacks etc.

big hug OP this will be zero to do with you or your parenting and just them on their own paths. They will be back xx

My kids have never been horrible but to be honest I've never forced them into spending time with us. They do if they want to and they do seem to like to a fair bit now at 15 and 18. I also never limited screen time and it hasn't caused any issues (in fact for DS it has been great as he taught himself so much programming etc wise he has been offered a great job after he finished school). Teens go through a weird phase - its part of growing up. No need to make them feel like they are disappointing you just by being themselves. That said I'd encourage them to spend time with friends more than gaming if possible and as long as they are keeping up with school work and not being disrespectful to you I would leave them to it.

I have watched many many CGI/Disney etc films that are not to my taste believe me! I'm not dragging myself or them for a bike ride in the rain and cold... I'm not spending hours doing board games... But will do shorter games and quicker activities like baking interspersed with us doing our own thing. I think you can have a balance of family time coupled with time to yourself. Seems people on here are obsessed with "family time" so it almost becomes like a kind of pressure....I prefer to be a bit more easy going about it. And yes I think as I'm hitting menopause I am being a bit more selfish. Not prepared to be a slave to my kids but happy to reach a compromise

I wonder if part of the problem is that you're looking at this in a very binary all-or-nothing way: either they're on their own on devices, or the WHOLE family is doing something together. And when you try and do that it doesn't work because there isn't enough that you all like or have in common.

Could you try just doing more things with two of you? One parent and one child. You said for example that your DD was fine with the matinee in London, but it was spoilt by DS's attitude. If you'd arranged that as something for just you and her, you wouldn't have had that problem.

There's a big age gap between them, and the sex difference, and DS is not young enough that he'll just go along with anything.

That's where I would start.

I'm going to suggest family meals twice a week but not every single time, DD eats food before/after us some of v the time in the kitchen, not in her room. She's happy to eat meals out with us if it's a restaurant of her liking!

@Courgeon oh god, me too, my memories from the ages of 17-20 are pretty minimal, original raver and all that 😀. Honestly, as long as they know you are always there for them to go to with any problems, and home is their safe haven, then they will come out the other side. Enjoy your you time!

If they weren't siblings would you expect a 16 year old girl to be best buddies with a 13 year old boy and to want to spend time together?)
Forcing them into 'family time' isn't going to work when they are at different stages of development and maturity and when they are both, quite naturally, asserting themselves as independent people.
There is just me and my son so I learnt very quickly that unless there were compromises neither of us would get a holiday.
Where we go is a joint decision, we take turns to pick what we do, often that means I'll spend hours sitting by a pool or a beach ( which I don't really enjoy) but I'll read for a few hours. If we do what he wants to do first, he is usually quite happy to spend a few hours wandering round a roman ruin or castle in Wales. We both like boat trips - always a winner. I find food a great motivator- he will do most things if there is a pizza or cake involved.
He gets plenty of time to chill out on his phone.
It's not perfect - on day 2 of one holiday I threatened to get the next flight home unless he bucked his ideas up - he knew I meant it when I packed the case.
He is 18 now- we are going to London next week and Edinburgh the week after - both trips will have compromises but we will both get what we want out of them. And he still wants to come on holiday with me in the summer.
They do emerge from the teenage fog eventually

I don’t think more family time is the answer.

Leave them to it and start having fun with DH, with your friends and on your own. They’re old enough to sort themselves out in most ways. Have some small parties and nights out with other grownups.

Teenagers aren’t supposed enjoy things, they’re too full of hormones and all their energy is being sucked up by physically growing. Then every single adult they know has all these expectations of them. Just let them exist.

I was like this as a teen as I had no interest in spending time with my parents. I definitely changed as I got older.

Our teens have been the opposite, never in their rooms when at home. I'd have quite liked the balance! Family meal times, with the kids helping to cook has always been a 'thing', and they have always been up for family walks etc. But I have seen friends teens take their meals up to their rooms. Seems really odd to me, but not the end of the world.

OP sorry I think I misunderstood some things you said, please ignore my last post

Thank you, this is far more my natural inclination. I'm not going to force it, or start limiting things... Just cause more antagonism, they've always said regulated ok, they eat pretty well just because we do but I've never force fed them "healthy" food. They don't binge on chocolate or sweets. They do well in school and are pro social in their peer groups.

DDS rudeness does need a more assertive strategy however. It's not acceptable.

I would do small activities.
A meal out. Brunch or coffee out.
Dinners at home together.
Find a series you can all watch together or with each dc.
Get them doing chores too. Maybe they can cook a few meals over the holidays and have daily chores.
Im all for the screen time should be limited approach. Negotiate with them. My teens are different people when they haven't had much screen time. Much nicer.

This is SUCH a useful thread, thank you OP! And all.

Where did that come from? @Courgeon ignore that you sound nothing of the sort.

nobody asked, but a lot of the advisory responses around limiting ‘screen time’ are so out of touch in my opinion. i enjoy reading mumsnet but sometimes the older generation’s mindset on phones is exasperating. i’m 20 and have lived independently since 16 (foster care, supported lodgings and since 18 i have lived in my own flat on my own wage). i was never allowed a phone, computer or to watch television as a child until i was 16 and i bought my own phone. almost all the isolation and loneliness i had felt dissolved and i felt so much closer to my friends, being able to contact my friends and chat to them remotely was unbelievably good for my mental health.

harmful screentime would be watching porn, snuff videos or messaging adults trying to groom them, whereas the typical teenager just watches short form videos from their favourite youtube personality (very moderated website) or chats with friends. you might not like that your child doesn’t like you, but forcing them to stop doing these harmless things they enjoy isn’t going to help at all in most cases. i wish my childhood had involved the classic ‘going outside’ but due to how unsafe the world is now, i was never allowed. simple things like cafes and cinemas are out of adolescent budgets, even public transport is extortion, and so interaction has moved online. now, young people socialising outdoors is just teenagers in a dillapidated park, or on a field with nothing to do. your whimsical childhood is a thing of the past, sadly.

DH and I have done alot of “dividing and conquering” in recent years and even if the pandemic hadn’t intervened, I think we’d have paused family holidays (aside from the odd long weekend away), because they bicker and moan so much.

But, it’s improving. My two (17 and 14) are currently on an outdoorsy break with DH ( I had to work) and are having a great time, apparently. I had separate talks with them before they left and emphasized that they must be nice during this trip and not bicker with one another, as it really upsets Dad. They seem to have taken it on board.

Let’s see whether it last until they return on Friday. 🤞

OP, I’d be careful with your 16-year-old eating separately, it’s a tricky age with food. My DD (17) often moans about my boring cooking and I don’t mind her making herself something else-but she always has to sit at the table with us.

Yeah age 16 at the hacienda.... Fun at the time but so not ok! Have just had a chat with DS we've agreed to have a look through all the games (we have loads stored away!) And see if any of them are fun, plus in New year we'll go ice skating. This is a compromise activity, he doesn't want to do swimming anymore but I won't do go karting. Come warmer weather we have a paddle board that's loads of fun

I’d say give them space, this is perfectly normal, it’s normal for teens to start detaching a bit and striving to carve space without their parents.

If I were you I would say “ok family meal is a must twice a week, I won’t hassle you to join us on any other days but I’ll always be delighted if you pull up a chair.” Go and do stuff without them, don’t invite them, eventually they will start piping up wanting to go to something with you.

I think the more you centre teens the worse it is for them in some ways.