Ex trying to persuade son to live with him

[planetme]

My son has informed me his dad, my ex, is trying to persuade him to live with him full time when he starts A levels in September.

I am absolutely floored.
The bastard has done absolutely no real parenting since he was born. I left him when my son was 3 months old because he was emotionally, financially and physically abusive which got worse during my pregnancy. He pushed me downstairs when I was 6 month pregnant and constantly bullied me mentally. Having my son - ironically - gave me the strength to leave.

Initially he had zero interest in seeing him, it was obvious a baby was too much hard work. He visited sporadically and paid absolutely nothing. When our son was two he moved hundreds of miles away for a new relationship and barely saw him (his choice).

He returned after a couple of years and we made a regular arrangement for access. but has never, ever paid the full amount of child support Despite having a very well paid profession

Me and my husband have brought my son up emotionally and financially. We have done ALL the hard parts of parenting and done absolutely everything for him. While his dad does the absolute bare minimum and is the most tight fisted bastard I've ever known . I can count on one hand the amount of times he’s taken him for a day out or spent money on him other than his pitiful amount of "maintenance" . He gets no pocket money, no treats. All that comes from me

I am almost certain ex only wants him now because then he will legitimately be able to pay no child maintenance. If his (declared 🧐) earnings are less than 50k he can get the child benefit too

The thing is ex is very good at manipulating people, so I may as well just accept this is happening as I’ve got no chance. He will sell the idea to my son as if it’s the best idea ever. It goes without saying I've said to my son it's ok if he decides staying with his dad is best. I don't want to try and influence him, he's got to do what he feels is right for him. Despite my ex being shit I've never once bad mouthed him in my sons presence, and always facilitated a relationship. He - of course - has no idea of the abuse I experienced at the hands of his dad

But I'm heartbroken . I can't sleep

I also have children with my current husband who would be upset if their brother didn't live with us.

Whatever you say about his dad, I think you should be more outspoken that you would prefer him to live at home. Ex has probably been dripping lies that he’s the cuckoo in the nest.

What has your ex been like during contact? Does DS stay over frequently? What is he using to sell the idea to DS?

If it looks like going ahead I would also suggest to DS starting with just increasing the amount he stays over initially. ‘After all, you know how lazy & tight-fisted your dad is - otherwise he’ll have you doing all his cooking & cleaning for him by end of the month!’

or ‘What a shame, I was planning on putting you on my car insurance once you passed you test. No point if you’re not here.’

This is your son, you know he is better off with you - fight dirty if you have to.

I don’t think it’s fair on your son NOT to ‘fight’ for him.
By being so scrupulously ‘fair’, you’re in danger of him not thinking you are particularly bothered about him staying with you. By concealing ALL your ex’s abuses, you aren’t allowing your son to make an informed choice.
I’m not suggesting you give him chapter and verse but I would definitely emphasis that you very definitely want him to stay with you, that you would be very sad to lose him. I would explain that his father has behaved in abusive ways in the past and, while he may be behaving better now, there are things that you will neither forgive or forget. Then reiterate that you understand he may still be any to experience living with his father and that is his decision but he needs to know that you believe he will be happier and safer living with you and he is welcome back at any time, no questions asked.

I disagree with the majority. Its most likely that your son knows it's not what you want and will pick up that you are leaving the choice because you care so much about him. He will respect the fact that you are not putting pressure on him and guilt tripping him.

In all likelihood, it would only be pure curiosity that will get him to go there. It is much better he gets the chance to really get to know his father by his own experience than you telling him at a time when it could come up as manipulation.

Either he will realise what his dad is like and quickly come back of his own accord or maybe his dad has changed and will show to finally be a good dad and if that's the case, and your son is happy, ultimately, that's what is best for him.

On Mumsnet all fathers who want to see their children more are doing it because they don’t want to pay maintenance. If it weren’t for that pesky maintenance they wouldn’t bother, but still gotta keep asking for that maintenance and risk them getting 50/50 over it, even though without it they apparently wouldn’t bother and the hassle would be out of the mothers life.

Yeah “putting you on car insurance” sure sweetens the deal.

But why shouldn’t she send CM to the father? After all we would say it was wrong if a man didn’t send it when the child lived with their Mother. Does the mother just want custody to avoid maintenance?

this

tell him the truth he deserves to know. and you deserve the credit of being his mother for what you have done for him - he needs to know

I just want to say thanks for all the advice so far

I don't really know what to say tbh as my head is completely all over the place

it hurts more than anything I've ever experienced

I think that he should have the information but not to change his mind if he wants to go but to allow him to make an informed decision.

Has he made his decision then?

How often has your son see him?
how is the relationship between your son and your partner?
do you have any other children? Does your ex?

Oh, here we go...

No, she has loved, cared for and raised him all his life.

His father doesn't even appear to have been a Disney dad, just an occasional visitor in his son's life

15/16 is old enough that it would be fair for you to list to your son all the ways in which your ex has been unreliable, and to say that you don’t want him to go because you don’t want him living with someone so consistently unreliable. If he’s old enough to make this decision for himself, he’s old enough to cope with and deserves to have all the facts before making a decision.

15/16 is also old enough to say - openly and straightforwardly - that you personally don’t want him to go because you love him and you will really miss him. That’s not manipulative, that’s just being honest.

@Nanny0gg thank you 💐 ..I agree x

If you don’t actually tell your son you want him to continue living with you, he may feel that you want to get rid of him. You don’t have to tell him the full story but at 16 he’s old enough to know part of the truth and to know that you really want him to continue living with you.

Do you really think a 16 year old should be given this information? This is his father. He’s at such a vulnerable age and telling him all of this may well alienate him against his mother. Because I’m sure his father will have a different story.

OP, I’m sure this is so so painful for you. My DD1s father was an absolute hateful man, and I’ve spent years wanting to tell her the truth about how he treated me. I know that all that would achieve would be to cause her a great deal of pain. So I bite my tongue, put on a smile and to all intents and purposes play happy families with him. We are both very involved in DDs life, have grandchildren and our paths cross almost weekly these days. It no longer bothers me, and hasn’t done for a long time. But I did have counselling some years ago because I couldn’t get past how it made me feel. That was a game changer. Your boy may well have fantasised about living with his father for years. That’s only natural. Support him, be there for him whenever he wants to come home, and don’t forget that the years you’ve been building memories with him will not have been for nothing.

You said you don’t want to put pressure on your son. However you are letting him make a decision without giving him all the facts. A lie of omission is still a lie.

He is old enough now to know the truth. Tell him you will support whatever he wants, but he needs to know what he is getting himself in to.
He needs to know he is potentially going to live with an abuser who is likely only doing this for financial gain.
You are not protecting your son by covering for your ex. You are not allowing him to make an informed decision.

I'd be hesitant about telling him everything.

If he believes it, it will devastate him. And he will question why youvelet him have a relationship with his father all this time.

But if you dont have irrefutable proof like a conviction or photos of injuries or witnesses then he may find it easier to believe you're making it up than to admit the truth to himself that his dad is not the person he thought he was. His dad is going to turn it round on you and claim you're lying, that you are making up horrible accusations because you don't want to pay him maintenance, he always wanted to see your son and you stopped him and broke up the marriage even though he didnt want that etc and your son will be caught in the middle.
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I'd stick to the facts. That it sometimes feels like a change would be best but it's really really hard living with anyone you haven't spent significant amounts of time with before. He might lose some of that closeness with his siblings. You would really miss him etc.

Thank you ... this post has been particularly helpful

I agree - I think it would potentially do more harm than good for him to know the full truth. I did not go to the police about any of the abuse and I honestly am so angry that I didn't. I don't know why I didn't However the fact that his dad has consistently not paid enough to support him can be more easily proved so I haven't completely ruled out telling him that.

I think it wouldn't surprise him given that he is fully aware his dad never buys him anything or takes him anywhere. He is always tight with birthday gifts, and actually after his recent birthday my son actually mentioned he was disappointed with his dads lack of effort and how cheap the gift was. He is aware his dad has a very well paid job.

(As an aside, I do sometimes wonder if ex is abusive in any way to his current wife. She is a lovely, gentle person so I really hope not.)

I think if your DS does end up going, he'll be back within a fortnight.

Sounds like your ex enjoys the thrill of a challenge- getting DS to stay and getting one up on you - but the actual reality of parenting along with the large food bills for a teen, nah he'll get bored with that pretty quickly.

I agree with this. He’s 16, it’s a tough age, and hearing the truth would cause more harm than good at this stage.

Your son needs to know the full story, for his own protection. Does he know that his dad was physically abusive to you? Does he know that when he was a 6 month old foetus his dad threw you both down the stairs? You need to lay it all bare for him, including the fact that ex has dodged most of his financial obligations and that if the son moves there the ex won’t have to pay anything at all.

Please do not just accept this!

That’s terrible advice. So a child is considering moving to live with someone with a history of violence and you would conceal the history of violence?! The son has a right to know. Hiding the truth and instead saying crap like ‘I’d miss you’ is incredibly weak and playing right into the abuser’s hands.

I think this may actually be the worst advice I’ve ever seen on Mumsnet and that’s quite an achievement 🧐

Your instincts are right. Don't put him under pressue by telling him your side. It might completely backfire, also dc base who they are on their parents.

I'd give him my full blessing. You know, deep down, he's a shit dad and your son will be back. Trust the relationship and the family environment you have created.

As soon as his eyes and are over you need to give your son a few truths about his dad and fight for him. If you say nothing to your son about going to live with his father then your son will be convinced probably by your ex that you don’t care about him so without doubt you need to fight for your son.